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17 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

I've often wondered why the 'Liberal' name was adopted. It surely can't have been purely because 'Labour' was already taken. 

No idea. I’ve known Peter, as a friend for 45 years. Even canvassed for him once ( before I started Returning officer duties ). I consider his leaving the MLP and establishing LV his biggest mistake and a political betrayal.

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20 hours ago, VinnieK said:

That's pretty much the story of the collapse of Labour in Scotland. 

Of course, the other side of things is that rebellious MHKs have little reason to stick with a party if they disagree with this bit of policy or that aspect of how the organization is run. Unlike in the UK, party membership isn't a prerequisite for a government job, and the parties here don't command the kind of massive centralized and local resources their MPs and candidates are dependent on for election (and nor are such resources even needed when campaigning for election on the Island). 

In other words, there's not much carrot, and the stick's not that big either.

For those and other reasons, perhaps strong party politics are always going to have a relatively limited role to play on the Island—at the very most sharing any power they get with independents and other parties. I can't say I'd be that disappointed if that turned out to be the case.

Completely agree

Lawrie Hooper was out Saturday morning delivering leaflets/manifestos for Michael Josem. Which is either a great show of work ethic and solidarity or a lack of grass roots resources and a waste of direction of effort for a Ramsey MHK. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle as always.

I also think that in the UK you will find areas that are predetermined to vote for a party and realistically you can put anyone in that seat and it doesn't matter (maybe a 5-10% influence?) who they are as a person unless they create some scandal. Compared to our system which is very personal, with pro's and con's I suppose but ultimately the person is in control of their own destiny and actions.

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19 hours ago, James Hampton said:

Personally I don’t think people are happy with the political system here, and I don’t think parties are the solution either. Not because of the practical problems of gathering and holding a group together, but because a party simply replicates the problem we already have - where people are forced to accept unnecessary political compromises in order to hold power. There is no logic to that either. 

All politics is compromise. But it makes no sense to accept compromise simply to maintain the hold on power of one group of people. That’s not logical. The perpetual conflict it generates is simply inefficient.  

That's actually something that's a bit weird for LibVan - with the exception of the members that left in dispute there's not been any example I can think of where a LibVan member has had to come out and explain that they acted a certain way due to party policy first.

Well, apart from the CM elections where they all block voted for Beecroft.

Is that because LibVan don't have prescriptive policies, that they've never clashed with members views or that they all keep quiet about it so you have a hidden compromise within a hidden compromise. I suppose it's natural for it to only be spoken about if the decision or action is called into question by dissatisfied folk?

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3 hours ago, Boo Gay'n said:

Not sure if you were referring to Karran, Redmayne or Josem - I wouldn't touch anyone associated with LV with the proverbial barge pole in any case!

I mean.... the link you've quoted has this statement in the article "Michael Josem runs a website IOM Vote Leave." 

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On 7/26/2020 at 11:44 AM, gettafa said:

Why? Because of the usual looking out for number one and what's in it for me? Give the lad his due he has shown he has integrity. There's about a dozen (including Douglas Corporation) who were otherwise unelectable but who got in on the LibVan ticket, and did their own thing once the buffets etc started appearing.

I would expect Josem to do well at the South Douglas by-election.Maybe wait until after then to see the future of LibVan.

This is literally the only time (unless you know better) that Lawrie Hooper has been front of house. 

As spike would state, comes across like a grovelling little shit.

I remember because I thought at the time, if this was any other department, you would be tearing it two arseholes.. ergo, no different than the others

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-slides-but-nsc-pool-to-open-next-month/

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2 hours ago, Rhumsaa said:

I also think that in the UK you will find areas that are predetermined to vote for a party and realistically you can put anyone in that seat and it doesn't matter (maybe a 5-10% influence?) who they are as a person unless they create some scandal. Compared to our system which is very personal, with pro's and con's I suppose but ultimately the person is in control of their own destiny and actions.

Pretty much, partly because a lot of people vote for the party (or, what is often the case, against the party) regardless of the candidate, and partly because constituencies are so ridiculously large in the UK that the personal qualities or even identity of the candidate mean nothing, since few are going to be familiar with them. The converse of that is that parties or candidates can quite happily ignore or pay lip service to whole areas of their constituency.  During the last election, when I was still in England, only one of the candidates even bothered canvassing—though I did catch someone from the Lib Dem team, who was most certainly not the candidate, pushing a pamphlet in the letterbox claiming that their candidate "had just called round to visit" but had found no one was home.

The UK is especially bad at representative democracy precisely because of this and the fact that power is so insanely centralized there.

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I like to periodically contribute to these discussions by concisely summarising the points agreed so far. So I will.

LibVan was, remains, and always will be, a sack of shit.

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On 7/26/2020 at 12:30 PM, Holte End said:

Someone should ask this man his views on the plight of the  indigenous people  in his home country.

https://www.dw.com/en/pm-australia-failing-to-improve-plight-of-aboriginal-citizens/a-19037199

I think it's a tragedy. Many indigenous people of Australia have missed out on so much of the social and economic advances that the rest of the world has achieved since the industrial revolution.

I haven't lived in the nation for around a decade, so don't have any specific policy views. My sister works as a primary school principal in one of the most remotest communities in Australia (if not the world!) and the stories that she shares of the local indiginous communities are consistently heart-breaking and emotionally devastating.

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4 hours ago, Rhumsaa said:

That's actually something that's a bit weird for LibVan - with the exception of the members that left in dispute there's not been any example I can think of where a LibVan member has had to come out and explain that they acted a certain way due to party policy first.

Well, apart from the CM elections where they all block voted for Beecroft.

Is that because LibVan don't have prescriptive policies, that they've never clashed with members views or that they all keep quiet about it so you have a hidden compromise within a hidden compromise. I suppose it's natural for it to only be spoken about if the decision or action is called into question by dissatisfied folk?

I think you are probably somewhere close. Not very prescriptive, relatively small number of active members relative to voters for successful candidates (the representative will be inclined to be more responsive to the voter than the party), and lead from the front (membership submissive to leadership)  I would guess are the main factors. 

I don’t have any current knowledge really of the internal mechanics but I would assume a similar scenario in all the local parties. 

Edited by James Hampton
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1 hour ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

And then there were ten. Andrew Jessop is standing as well.

He's actually standing as the Green Party candidate, of which I think he's been a member of for some time though he would have been elected to Braddan as an Independent.  This means all three of the 'proper' Parties will have a candidate (but only one) -  it makes a change from the Gizzajob Party, that a lot of the other candidates seem to be members of. 

I never know whether his name has one 'p' or two at the end, though judging from his manifesto in 2001 when he also stood in Douglas South, neither does he as it's spelt both ways there.  I know some people find him annoying, but he's been quite effective at Braddan and he was the only one who was prepared to stand up to Buster when he was Clerk there and that eventually led to Buster going, though after the spending of a lot ratepayer money (mainly by and on Buster).

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7 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Did they sack that £7m community centre thing off? Think they were supposed to vote on it right at the start of the lockdown

I think they are reappraisal plan to see if it’s worth the money etc, tenders were higher than anticipated 

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