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Teacher’s pay dispute


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2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

We just produce people who don't know how to cope with setbacks in life or being knocked back. And now need counselling to deal with it as well on occasions.

Funnily, that's what physical discipline creates too.

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11 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Now we supposedly have this bollocks that their written work allegedly can't be corrected or marked with a X if wrong in case they get negative vibes about life?

Indeed, red ink is definitely verboten.

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3 hours ago, monasqueen said:

When I was training to be a teacher, the idea was that kids should not have their spelling , grammar, etc... over corrected, because that would cause them to lose their enthusiasm for writing, and cramp their style.

I'm dyslexic, but I was only diagnosed in my 20s. As a result spelling and handwriting were a constant issue for me. I'd get work back with no comment on the content, just bleats about spelling and presentation and low marks. There was no coaching on how I could work differently or improve my spelling or grammar or presentation. Just a load of red pen telling me I was useless at spelling and handwriting. So I gave up, because I thought I just couldn't do it.

The funny thing is once I was out of that environment, I became quite good at. Passed O and A Level English, took a degree with literature components, passed creative writing courses, write stories and poems as a hobby, at work I'm asked to coach people to improve the standard of their written work. 

What changed was I was I learned the content was more important than superficial things like spelling and presentation. I accepted I would make mistakes in those areas, learnt to spot them, fix them and eventually avoid them.

 

 

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Incidentally, I always think it's a bit unfair, when people say school leavers have a poor standard of written English now compared to people who left school twenty or thirty years ago. But that's to be expected? A 50 year old has been speaking, reading and writing English every day for 45 years; a 20 year old for only 15. Of course they're going to be better, they've got three times the experience!

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1 hour ago, jaybs said:

Even before secondary school I was taught when writing have a dictionary by your side, never did me any harm! now on their mobiles it is speed that counts with a message, spelling out of the door.

You do realise that with their mobiles they've literally got a dictionary in their hand?  Whether they use it or not is another matter, but that applied to dictionaries as well.  And there's an awful lot of older folk on here who don't even bother to correct what they write even though the system underlines it for them - as you say speed matters.

But meaning has been the most important thing for most of the history of English.  Shakespeare couldn't even spell his own name consistently and Jane Austen had terrible spelling.

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5 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Sorry to turn up as a delegate for the philistines, but dear old Jane isn’t exactly a front-runner when it comes to her actual writing either to be frank. Tedious bilge. (Though not as bad as the execrable output from the truly awful George Eliot). 

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31 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

Sorry to turn up as a delegate for the philistines, but dear old Jane isn’t exactly a front-runner when it comes to her actual writing either to be frank. Tedious bilge. (Though not as bad as the execrable output from the truly awful George Eliot). 

Philistine !

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15 hours ago, Declan said:

I'm dyslexic, but I was only diagnosed in my 20s. As a result spelling and handwriting were a constant issue for me. I'd get work back with no comment on the content, just bleats about spelling and presentation and low marks. There was no coaching on how I could work differently or improve my spelling or grammar or presentation. Just a load of red pen telling me I was useless at spelling and handwriting. So I gave up, because I thought I just couldn't do it.

The funny thing is once I was out of that environment, I became quite good at. Passed O and A Level English, took a degree with literature components, passed creative writing courses, write stories and poems as a hobby, at work I'm asked to coach people to improve the standard of their written work. 

What changed was I was I learned the content was more important than superficial things like spelling and presentation. I accepted I would make mistakes in those areas, learnt to spot them, fix them and eventually avoid them.

 

 

Well done. Richard Branson is another example of someone who worked his way through this sort of "barrier".

At one of my office jobs across, the filing clerks were given a table to sort documents into alphabetic order, with a row of large letters at the top of the table... A...B...C...

The dyslexic in my trainee time wrote a poem which only she could read. I spent ages with her transcribing it into recognisable english, and it was put up on the wall. Creativity, imagery, etc... it was all there.

A lot of people are too easily put down, then stay down. Some of them seem to believe that they should be able to progress without any effort on their part.

There is not enough emphasis on positivity and self belief. A lot of things that look impossible can be done, given just a little determination.

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57 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

Well done. Richard Branson is another example of someone who worked his way through this sort of "barrier".

At one of my office jobs across, the filing clerks were given a table to sort documents into alphabetic order, with a row of large letters at the top of the table... A...B...C...

The dyslexic in my trainee time wrote a poem which only she could read. I spent ages with her transcribing it into recognisable english, and it was put up on the wall. Creativity, imagery, etc... it was all there.

A lot of people are too easily put down, then stay down. Some of them seem to believe that they should be able to progress without any effort on their part.

There is not enough emphasis on positivity and self belief. A lot of things that look impossible can be done, given just a little determination.

I was listening to a podcast the other day about an entrepreneur running a very succesful business, who when asked about writing content admitted she was dyslexic and the conversation moved to how she had read studies and knew many successful CEO's / entrepreneurs who were not 'the academic' standard that was expected by educational institutions. Delegation, creativity and dillegent process seemed to bubble up from this type of person and put them ahead of the drones.

The education system just churns through stuff every year without changing with the world at a fast enough pace. I agree that more needs to be taught on having the right positive mindset and not knocking individuals down because they can't spell or do long division. We're all limitless in potential, but it only takes a few negative knockdowns to set you back for life if you are continually led to believe you are limited.

Are Dyslexics More Entrepreneurial?
 http://www.brainblogger.com/2018/06/20/are-dyslexics-more-entrepreneurial/

Dyslexia: Some very smart accomplished people cannot read well
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217150838.htm

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Listening to the interview with a head teacher on Manx Radio this morning it occurred to me how intransigent the teachers have become in calling their charges 'students' rather than 'pupils'. Both the interviewer and Education Minister managed to describe the school children quite correctly as 'pupils' but the head teacher was having none of it and squeezed in the word 'student' as many times as possible.

Surely the word student is for further education, those enrolled at a college or university?

The only reason I can see for this, and it is rather like the good ol' dustman being described as a 'domestic refuse collector', is to raise the status of school children, to er, try and justify the teachers more pay. 

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32 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Listening to the interview with a head teacher on Manx Radio this morning it occurred to me how intransigent the teachers have become in calling their charges 'students' rather than 'pupils'. Both the interviewer and Education Minister managed to describe the school children quite correctly as 'pupils' but the head teacher was having none of it and squeezed in the word 'student' as many times as possible.

Surely the word student is for further education, those enrolled at a college or university?

The only reason I can see for this, and it is rather like the good ol' dustman being described as a 'domestic refuse collector', is to raise the status of school children, to er, try and justify the teachers more pay. 

I think it stems from the rise of Sixth Form Colleges and the like.  How do you call someone someone doing A-levels at one a student but a pupil if they're doing exactly the same thing in a school?  But if you start calling some of those studying in schools different things, it also gets clumsy - you keep on having to talk about 'students and pupils'.  Far easier to just use one word to cover everyone. 

It's not a shift that's new, it's been happening for decades.  People with post-War childhoods really have to stop demanding that everything is done exactly as it was in their day and complaining because children no longer do calculations in pounds, shillings and pence.

And calling them dustmen stopped making sense when they stopped collecting dust - or more accurately the ash from domestic fires.

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On 8/11/2020 at 10:28 PM, Uhtred said:

Sorry to turn up as a delegate for the philistines, but dear old Jane isn’t exactly a front-runner when it comes to her actual writing either to be frank. Tedious bilge. (Though not as bad as the execrable output from the truly awful George Eliot). 

A controversial view Uhtred, and one that I don't share. Who would you rate above them ? Could make a great separate thread if you have the time.

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58 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think it stems from the rise of Sixth Form Colleges and the like.  How do you call someone someone doing A-levels at one a student but a pupil if they're doing exactly the same thing in a school?  But if you start calling some of those studying in schools different things, it also gets clumsy - you keep on having to talk about 'students and pupils'.  Far easier to just use one word to cover everyone. 

It's not a shift that's new, it's been happening for decades.  People with post-War childhoods really have to stop demanding that everything is done exactly as it was in their day and complaining because children no longer do calculations in pounds, shillings and pence.

And calling them dustmen stopped making sense when they stopped collecting dust - or more accurately the ash from domestic fires.

I kind of considered what you have said when I posted, but the interviewer used the word 'pupil' and so did Doctor Allinson, although they also used student. The somewhat uppity head teacher hammered home the word 'student'.

I would say school children up to GCSE are pupils. Even primary school teachers refer to their little charges as students. It's laughable.

Re dustmen, perhaps I should have used the word binman, but you get the point.

 

ETA:

Just listening to Manx Radio and a teacher from CRHS has just referred to them as children and pupils.

Thank you that teacher.

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