Jump to content

Teacher’s pay dispute


Banker
 Share

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Yes the older pupils will certainly lose some respect for the teachers who have deprived them of sports and music after the miserable time they have recently had.   I have heard them commenting that teachers cannot be bothered any more, their words not mine but I agree with them.

Yes I’ve heard this too.

Extra curriculum stuff Is being discarded and for some staff it seems fine..... unless off course there is overtime paid to cover things like Staff  teaching students at Manx youth orchestra...... now there doesn’t seem to be the same issue.......wonder why????

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Destinymoon said:

Yes I’ve heard this too.

Extra curriculum stuff Is being discarded and for some staff it seems fine..... unless off course there is overtime paid to cover things like Staff  teaching students at Manx youth orchestra...... now there doesn’t seem to be the same issue.......wonder why????

 

Tell us again, what's your beef with the music department?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Tell us again, what's your beef with the music department?

The realisation that we have 'teachers' of the department of education, who have no accountability other than providing their own statistics, manipulated to their own agenda to make them look good, by assessing their own exams for the majority of pupils.................

UK Music departments enter students for independent music exams (ABRSM, Trinity etc) but the IOM system seems happy to get their teaching colleague Service mates to assess pupils and then gloat about how many have passed in the local press. This is not a cynical reflection on pupil endeavours but rather the system itself, which seems to pass students no matter how bad it goes, to 'encourage' them, and perhaps if an independent external examiner was used we may get a more accurate system of achievement....... and certainly something more reflective of assessment of teacher achievement.

I previously mentioned I had been in conversations where this has been highlighted by other music teachers/ musicians. 

Seems like a great gig.

But then same teachers seem to not want to get involved in school extra curricular stuff as they are following union guidelines of action short of strike.

Seems an appropriate cause of concern to me?

AndyOnchan prove me otherwise.

Hopefully, someone in power will have the ability and interest to find out, but there again it'll be interesting to see if the new broom will quickly just sit back and let things simply 'carry on, nothing to see here', similiar to the response you seem so intent on doing AndyOnchan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Destinymoon said:

The realisation that we have 'teachers' of the department of education, who have no accountability other than providing their own statistics, manipulated to their own agenda to make them look good, by assessing their own exams for the majority of pupils.................

UK Music departments enter students for independent music exams (ABRSM, Trinity etc) but the IOM system seems happy to get their teaching colleague Service mates to assess pupils and then gloat about how many have passed in the local press. This is not a cynical reflection on pupil endeavours but rather the system itself, which seems to pass students no matter how bad it goes, to 'encourage' them, and perhaps if an independent external examiner was used we may get a more accurate system of achievement....... and certainly something more reflective of assessment of teacher achievement.

I previously mentioned I had been in conversations where this has been highlighted by other music teachers/ musicians. 

Seems like a great gig.

But then same teachers seem to not want to get involved in school extra curricular stuff as they are following union guidelines of action short of strike.

Seems an appropriate cause of concern to me?

AndyOnchan prove me otherwise.

Hopefully, someone in power will have the ability and interest to find out, but there again it'll be interesting to see if the new broom will quickly just sit back and let things simply 'carry on, nothing to see here', similiar to the response you seem so intent on doing AndyOnchan.

https://im.abrsm.org/en/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Destinymoon said:

The realisation that we have 'teachers' of the department of education, who have no accountability other than providing their own statistics, manipulated to their own agenda to make them look good, by assessing their own exams for the majority of pupils.

The idea that you think that there is no accountability, moderation or quality assurance in a DESC department is farcical. You are feigning knowledge of a topic of which you know very little about.

As you've been asked before, which job did you get turned down for?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DrunkenMonkey said:

The idea that you think that there is no accountability, moderation or quality assurance in a DESC department is farcical. You are feigning knowledge of a topic of which you know very little about.

As you've been asked before, which job did you get turned down for?

What is the external accountability, quality assurance in Education as I’m unaware what checks there are?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Banker said:

What is the external accountability, quality assurance in Education as I’m unaware what checks there are?

None, Banker spot on.........the soothsayers above make great efforts to defend the undefensible.

The link to abrsm im is simply a link..........not at all what I'm talking about.... How many Music students do lower grades with them from DOE, FIND THE STATS ANDY and prove me wrong, and in that case, what proportion of numbers 'sitting' exams actually come through this DOE system.

I would gamble at least 90% of students don't do ABRSM exams in the DOE system and of the others who do, they would significantly come through external organisations, volunteers, who teach and do a good job in progressing their pupils to higher achievements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said:

The idea that you think that there is no accountability, moderation or quality assurance in a DESC department is farcical. You are feigning knowledge of a topic of which you know very little about.

As you've been asked before, which job did you get turned down for?

Are you sure about your sweeping statement?............. accountability can only be measured if the person observing actually does their job.........hence why the Beamans report highlights this! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Destinymoon said:

Are you sure about your sweeping statement?............. accountability can only be measured if the person observing actually does their job.........hence why the Beamans report highlights this! 

Oh and can you provide me with any detail as to the last time the Service was externally moderated officially.........not through a mate who happens to be an advisor in the department?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Destinymoon said:

None, Banker spot on.........the soothsayers above make great efforts to defend the undefensible.

The link to abrsm im is simply a link..........not at all what I'm talking about.... How many Music students do lower grades with them from DOE, FIND THE STATS ANDY and prove me wrong, and in that case, what proportion of numbers 'sitting' exams actually come through this DOE system.

I would gamble at least 90% of students don't do ABRSM exams in the DOE system and of the others who do, they would significantly come through external organisations, volunteers, who teach and do a good job in progressing their pupils to higher achievements.

So far as I'm aware grades 1-4 are done internally, anything higher by ABRSM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Destinymoon said:

None, Banker spot on.........the soothsayers above make great efforts to defend the undefensible.

The link to abrsm im is simply a link..........not at all what I'm talking about.... How many Music students do lower grades with them from DOE, FIND THE STATS ANDY and prove me wrong, and in that case, what proportion of numbers 'sitting' exams actually come through this DOE system.

I would gamble at least 90% of students don't do ABRSM exams in the DOE system and of the others who do, they would significantly come through external organisations, volunteers, who teach and do a good job in progressing their pupils to higher achievements.

Why are you having a go at me when there's a page specifically set up for IOM? If students weren't going through that system then there would be little point in having it?? Sounds like you don;t know the numbers either.

If you're going to allege some kind of impropriety ("manipulate", Service mates" etc) then why don't you get in contact with the Education Council and air your concerns?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well done Helix, and the proportion of pupils who sit grades above that from the service are??? I don't know the figures and can't find out as nothing is published, but as I said, it wouldn't take a lot to find out for those who can access... Plus I'm sure music teachers in schools would be a good source of info on the numbers they get for GCSE and A level through the service, although under the current setup they're probably scared to say anything!

1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why are you having a go at me when there's a page specifically set up for IOM? If students weren't going through that system then there would be little point in having it?? Sounds like you don;t know the numbers either.

If you're going to allege some kind of impropriety ("manipulate", Service mates" etc) then why don't you get in contact with the Education Council and air your concerns?

Not having a go, but there is little point in contacting the DOE at present when it is still without change, and the general consensus from the concerned musicians brigade is that it must be saved at all cost for the good of music......... but is the system for the good of music and how do they know? I would say there's a fair few who know exactly what I'm talking about, but are scared to raise their head above the parapet...... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Destinymoon said:

UK Music departments enter students for independent music exams (ABRSM, Trinity etc) but the IOM system seems happy to get their teaching colleague Service mates to assess pupils and then gloat about how many have passed in the local press. This is not a cynical reflection on pupil endeavours but rather the system itself, which seems to pass students no matter how bad it goes, to 'encourage' them, and perhaps if an independent external examiner was used we may get a more accurate system of achievement....... and certainly something more reflective of assessment of teacher achievement.

But 'marking your own homework' is pretty much how the Manx civil service has been operating for the last 20-30 years.  As has localising training and assessment for things such as the police, social services and anything else they can get away with.  They just love telling each other how wonderful they are - self-congratulation is a growth industry.  Why shouldn't the kids have the same fun?

More seriously, if teachers are doing this sort of assessment, rather than giving students the chance of internationally-recognised qualifications, it will be because it is the policy of the DESC and another example of their slackness.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But 'marking your own homework' is pretty much how the Manx civil service has been operating for the last 20-30 years.  As has localising training and assessment for things such as the police, social services and anything else they can get away with.  They just love telling each other how wonderful they are - self-congratulation is a growth industry.  Why shouldn't the kids have the same fun?

More seriously, if teachers are doing this sort of assessment, rather than giving students the chance of internationally-recognised qualifications, it will be because it is the policy of the DESC and another example of their slackness.

It seems to be an idea which the service share as good for struggling families who cannot afford to put their children in due to the financial cost of an exam. It’s not like we really struggle here though is it compared to the UK. But the cost should be no more than £40 for grade 1 going up to £100 for grade 8. 

Conveniently though this allows statistics to be based on totally their own assessment and you’re right roger this appears to be common across many occupations.......

But again it’s much more than all of that, are there a lot of things that failures of management in things like recruitment, suitability etc. want to hide in the running of this and other unaccountable departments.... let’s see if the new ceo can start to ask the appropriate questions and clear the dirt out with a massive brush...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...