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Teacher’s pay dispute


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Unions seem to be getting rather irate that government haven’t got money to pay them an extra 9% plus £1.75m lump sums on top of 2.75% they have already had this year. personally I think they are

Trouble is, how do you objectively measure the outcome of a teacher?  Teacher A gets set 1 and everyone gets a top grade.  Teacher B gets set 6 and barely anyone sits the exam.  Teacher C has a pastor

Teaching assistants are needed because the Island has no special schools for children with serious physical or cognitive impairments, and no pupil referral units for the most unruly. This means classe

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38 minutes ago, Banker said:

Looks like teachers have managed to get appraisals & any external checks on them scrapped as well as more cash!!

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=59199&headline=School heads vote for pay offer&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020

Boils your piss, eh? The appraisal system was a time-wasting paper exercise, despised by all, which needs to be replaced by something not intended to be used in industry, which is robust and raises standards - objectives the old system never achieved. There will no doubt be a system of external inspection, just not the one where clueless employees of the DESC were meant to be both advisors and scrutineers and proved incapable of either role. So, a good outcome today, made even better by the apoplectic reaction of the usual blowhard gammons. And no, I'm not a teacher - just very well informed.

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1 hour ago, manxman34 said:

The appraisal system was a time-wasting paper exercise, despised by all, which needs to be replaced by something not intended to be used in industry, which is robust and raises standards - objectives the old system never achieved. There will no doubt be a system of external inspection, just not the one where clueless employees of the DESC were meant to be both advisors and scrutineers and proved incapable of either role. 

Don't bet on it.  According to the Beaman's Report:

Second, headteachers will be accountable to the board of Manx Education through their governing boards for both personal performance and the performance of their schools. We would also expect that the accountability of the role is set out formally so there are no misunderstandings as to where accountability begins and ends. Similarly, we would expect performance expectations to be clearly articulated.

Third, the governing boards will be accountable to the board of Manx Education for ensuring they discharge their responsibilities. The board of Manx Education will moderate all performance assessments both school and personal. This could be done either by the main board or more likely by a board sub-committee.

It looks like it will be the same situation of marking their own homework (actually worse because there is nominal outside assessment at the moment) but with the added attraction of lots more jobs for mates.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:19 AM, asitis said:

Surely there has to be a system for the appraisal of teacher performance which doesn't rely on the outcomes depending on what kids they are teaching, we cannot surely just ignore professional performance altogether ?

The idea is you have a baseline measure from which you judge progress from that point over a given period. Naturally, we need to have measures we trust and which cannot be doctored by interested parties. SATS or equivalent perform this role in all developed countries I can think of. In UK they refer to this picture of the progress a student makes and associate expectation for these students as the flight path. The point is really to better understand each pupil, and for school over-all, rather than a given teacher. With any data collection there will be a cost in teachers time and OFSTED in UK now said it ignores what it deems excess data.

Socially economic factors will spill over into the classroom, and teachers/school with best will in world cannot address them along. Teachers are no more responsible for education disadvantage than social workers are for neglect. Quoting from page 8 from 'Tacking disadvantage of early years', House of Commons Education Committee, 9th Report (2017-2019):

"The attainment gap between disadvantaged children and their more advantaged counterparts is already evident when children begin school aged 5, with a gap between them the equivalent of 4.3 months of learning. This gap more than doubles to 9.5 months at the end of primary school, and then more than doubles again to 19.3 months at the end of secondary school."

 

 

Edited by BenFairfax
Obfuscate social economic background.
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19 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

It looks like it will be the same situation of marking their own homework (actually worse because there is nominal outside assessment at the moment) but with the added attraction of lots more jobs for mates.

Thanks @Roger Mexico and as you implied if mark own homework then Board of Education becomes redundant. Please note at present the DoE has 5 members of the 'school improvement service' and I do not understand what they do all day. By far most detailed data to emerge has been collected, and collated by parent David Watts as a private citizen using FOI requests, available here The primary schools on Island now post aggregate data onto their websites, but with all data it comes back to whether in initial assessment of each child is even accurate, objective, robust, and comparable as child moves through education system and across schools. Again, here point of data is not really about basing teachers, but improving outcomes for kids. Teachers are facilitators, the consumers of service are the kids. 

Regarding assessment of each kid just to put more detail on what this means with no formal assessment such as SATS exams marked externally, a teacher if head allows them can unofficially use UK SATS test (or similar) or is forced to provide each student with "a level" for all subjects they teach them from any ad hoc sources they have. Heads must put something on the child's record each term for each assessed subject for DoE. Without SATS in mathematics for example, this would mean the teacher with the child's workbooks/from recollection would compare the child against reference levels and put something down which they thought was reasonable.

Going back to SATS introduction in August 1989 in UK, the original reason for this move was that the content which students were presented with differed from school to school. The purpose of SATS was to check the newly introduced National Curriculum (each drawn up and continually reviewed by domain experts and educationists) was being taught. Whatever the local head may think or what anyone thought the local kids were capable of, the National Curriculum assured all kid's (in theory) would receive a similar education.

Edited by BenFairfax
Got around to proof reading, sorry to those who tried to read pre-proof read version.
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On 11/13/2020 at 8:35 PM, Meoir Shee said:

Trouble is, how do you objectively measure the outcome of a teacher?  Teacher A gets set 1 and everyone gets a top grade.  Teacher B gets set 6 and barely anyone sits the exam.  Teacher C has a pastoral role in the school and doesn’t teach exam classes.  Teacher D works with High Level Needs SEN kids.  Who has performed best/worst/met expectations/failed the kids?

Whatever anyone thinks, we are going to have GCSE and post GCSE training/A-Levels, and associated destination data. I talk about flight path in previous post, but as you say quite few intangibles. I really aim my comments at kids in mainline education who should aspire to English Baccalaureate. I have some experience teaching at different levels, but in the main it is to students who want to be there and keen to learn. Not exclusively, but I have limited experience dealing with students for whatever reason who are not engaged. When faced with such situations I found it just hard going and demoralizing. With SEN I have no real idea, but I imagine the even more challenging and cannot really comment.

 

On 11/14/2020 at 12:58 PM, Roxanne said:

The sad truth is that teachers were already weeded out when the National Curriculum arrived. Only it was the good ones that left not the bad and the situation from twenty years has never truly recovered.

The good teachers had already been covering an excellent 'national curriculum' for years but a minority weren't and instead of scooping them up, checking them, managing them and providing them with additional training it was decided instead to make the whole lot jump through a new set of hoops.  It demoralised the good teachers who, now instead of spending their time teaching were spending a huge part of their days (and nights) ticking boxes. 

Any assessment program is going to take teachers away from teaching and one would hope PC/online assessment tools would be used at some point. Educational psychologists use the Pearson products which is online but expensive, and something like Seneca, would cut lot of box ticking out, marking overhead and allow standardization across schools. It appears assessment is moving in this direction at least. In recent years, here and in UK I have heard term Mastery mathematics and the implementation of this, such as Khan Academy which aims for each student to follow the curriculum at their own pace and for a platform to monitor progress. These ideas been around for 100s years, but only with such platforms does the box ticking overhead become workable.

Edited by BenFairfax
Try sound more middle class.
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On 11/23/2020 at 9:44 PM, Banker said:

Confused by above posts, is there going to be an external assessment of schools & teachers or not?

Note the previous assessments involved Mr Moorcroft visiting schools after given them plenty of warning and spending a day at the school. Issue with small island is all teachers know each other, and hard to really be external in any genuine sense. It even more difficult when we have no objective measure of outcomes from which he can make judgements. If he had a set of measures he could say to a head, these look a bit off, whereas without them he has to say I think personally.... Without any object tests, how does one measure the effect of any changes. Inspection is really about improving the system rather than just measuring outcomes for the sake of it. 

Even when inspections were occurring they were signed off externally by Howard Marshall Education Consultancy Limited, with reports available here Whether you consider this truly external is matter of judgement. OFSTED would be completely independent, but they would want 100K+ to inspect a secondary school, and likely no easy fixes to any suggestions they may or may not make. I imagine inspections will return when a schema is negotiated, I just hope that someone is advocating for the consumers of education, namely the kids.

Edited by BenFairfax
Clarity
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8 hours ago, BenFairfax said:

Note the previous assessments involved Mr Moorcroft visiting schools after given them plenty of warning, and spending a day at the school. Issue with small island is all teachers know each other, and hard to really be external in any real sense. It even more difficult when we have no objective measure of outcomes from which he can make judgements. If he had a set of measures he could say to a head, these look a bit off, where as without them he has to say I think personally.... Moreover, without any object tests, how does one measure the effect of any changes. Inspection is really about improving he system rather than just measuring outcomes for the sake of it. 

Even when inspection were occurring they was signed off externally by Howard Marshall Education Consultancy Limited, with reports available here Whether you consider this truly external is matter of judgement. OFSTED would be completely independent but they would want 100K+ to inspect a secondary school, and likely no easy fixes to any suggestions they may or may not make. Going forward I imagine inspections will return when a schema is negotiated, I just hope that someone is advocating for the consumers of education, namely the kids.

Why not wait for a topic you understand before posting? It would save you from looking so silly.

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16 hours ago, BenFairfax said:

Thanks @Roger Mexico and as you implied if mark own homework then Board of Education becomes redundant. Please note at present the DoE has 5 members of the 'school improvement service' and I do not understand what they do all day. By far most detailed data to emerge has been collected, and collated by parent David Watts as a private citizen using FOI requests, available here

Oh, you really are in the know Mr Fairfax.............perhaps a few teachers would be able to confirm this :)

14 hours ago, BenFairfax said:

Note the previous assessments involved Mr Moorcroft visiting schools after given them plenty of warning, and spending a day at the school. Issue with small island is all teachers know each other, and hard to really be external in any real sense. It even more difficult when we have no objective measure of outcomes from which he can make judgements. If he had a set of measures he could say to a head, these look a bit off, where as without them he has to say I think personally.... Moreover, without any object tests, how does one measure the effect of any changes. Inspection is really about improving he system rather than just measuring outcomes for the sake of it.

And could it be perhaps that this expected arrival could allow the use of the teachers that 'can' for observations and others disappear into the broom cupboard........heaven forbid

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