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TT 2020 cost £960,000.00.


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4 hours ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Paul Phillips (also has a commercial interest in the Cyclefest Gran Fondo thing) - couldn't resist posting his daily 70km strava cycle rides during lockdown - absolute prime example of (insert personal favourite Civil Service insult Verb)

Those sort of things annoyed a lot of people trying to hold down a job home working and home school their kids when a few civil servants were clearly cycling around on full pay and posting their journeys on Facebook or Twitter for all to see. It was all so lovely wasn’t it? Well clearly it was when you could offload your kids into a key worker supporting school then twat about on your bike for 8 hours a day and get a great big pay cheque at the end of the month for doing next to fuck all. 

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Shocking, considering the measures that had supposedly been put in place after 2003 and 2007.

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In fairness, you’d need a fire extinguisher every 50 metres if you were going to account for every possibility. And it wasn’t the fire that killed the chap, so it really is a bit of a red herring. Bit of mission creep from the coroner, really. 

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22 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

In fairness, you’d need a fire extinguisher every 50 metres if you were going to account for every possibility. And it wasn’t the fire that killed the chap, so it really is a bit of a red herring. Bit of mission creep from the coroner, really. 

It may not have been the fire that directly caused the fatality but it was still part of the incident that needed to be dealt with, if there hadn't been the fatality the fire would still have needed to be extinguished, even if it was to allow the race to continue.

It simply draws attention to the fact that the TT course's length makes it a bottomless pit as far as the provision of safety equipment is concerned. Just how much would be needed to equip every "equipment blind spot" (when was the last time there was an incident or fatality at Snugborough too)?

The problem is that when it does happen, these shortcomings are then flagged up in the ensuing publicity and the particular area will subsequently be equipped on a reactive basis. Until the next time when something occurs at somewhere else previously considered uneventful.

It's a battle that can't be won IMHO and will be lost as long as the current and increasing speeds remains the only focus.

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33 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

In fairness, you’d need a fire extinguisher every 50 metres if you were going to account for every possibility. And it wasn’t the fire that killed the chap, so it really is a bit of a red herring. Bit of mission creep from the coroner, really. 

No it isn't.  Coroners are entitled to make recommendations on related topics that aren't the immediate cause of a particular death, but might affect things in future, similar situations.  Indeed that's one of the purposes of inquests.

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5 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

The micky mouse amateur setup of the TT organisation is exposed for all to see here.

Fatal crash with the marshals having to put out a fire with cement dust because no fire extinguishers ! AND worse of all, no medical equipment, really shocking.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53758638

 

5 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Shocking, considering the measures that had supposedly been put in place after 2003 and 2007.

 

58 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

In fairness, you’d need a fire extinguisher every 50 metres if you were going to account for every possibility. And it wasn’t the fire that killed the chap, so it really is a bit of a red herring. Bit of mission creep from the coroner, really. 

Correct Derek, the nature of the course makes it almost impossible to cover every single location and have extinguishers and medical equipment every 50 yards. As said, they were fairly close by and travelling marshals, who attend every incident and are there in minutes, carry medical equipment. Even a short circuit would have spots where equipment needs carrying a distance. I've seen cars and bikes burn out at world level events when it takes time for the equipment to arrive. Car rallying is even worse than the TT in terms of this.   

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Well that's all right then, nothing to see here they will carry on regardless because its impossible to put safety equipment at regular intervals around the course.

Its not impossible it is too expensive, a riders life at the TT has a price they cant exceed.

P.S. Throwing a very fine powder on a flame is not good either, should be part of the marshal training. Fine powders can explode.

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6 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

Well that's all right then, nothing to see here they will carry on regardless because its impossible to put safety equipment at regular intervals around the course.

Its not impossible it is too expensive, a riders life at the TT has a price they cant exceed.

P.S. Throwing a very fine powder on a flame is not good either, should be part of the marshal training. Fine powders can explode.

They do have safety equipment at regular intervals, maybe it needs to be looked at but the incident happened in a most unlikely place.

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I don't disagree with you very often Max but there are so many places on the course that are unlikely places for an accident, for example the sidecar crash on the straight before Ballaugh bridge when an animal ran into the road.

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

No it isn't.  Coroners are entitled to make recommendations on related topics that aren't the immediate cause of a particular death, but might affect things in future, similar situations.  Indeed that's one of the purposes of inquests.

The role of a coroner in an inquest is to establish;

  • Who the deceased was
  • When and where they died
  • The medical cause of their death
  • How they came by their death

My understanding was that they can make recommendations to prevent further deaths, under the coroner of inquest rules of which I can’t find a copy. I recall there being such recommendations in the inquest of Michael Davidson. That was my point in essence - fire extinguishers not part of the issue here so why comment? 

I’m also pretty sure the Coroner has written to the DOI with recommendations on high speed fatalities in the past, which have been roundly ignored. 

Overall though, anyone in authority making a point where safety is involved is no bad thing.

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16 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

I don't disagree with you very often Max but there are so many places on the course that are unlikely places for an accident, for example the sidecar crash on the straight before Ballaugh bridge when an animal ran into the road.

Twice. Remember the horse. 
We can do better than this for a few shillings in the till. Yeah and I don’t believe the bollocks accounts they provide to justify the deaths. 
The TT and MGP are and always were thrilling to watch. The consequences are not easily justified, if at all. Just call it quits and move on to something else.

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14 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

My understanding was that they can make recommendations to prevent further deaths, under the coroner of inquest rules of which I can’t find a copy. I recall there being such recommendations in the inquest of Michael Davidson. That was my point in essence - fire extinguishers not part of the issue here so why comment? 

I’m also pretty sure the Coroner has written to the DOI with recommendations on high speed fatalities in the past, which have been roundly ignored. 

While fire extinguishers (or rather their lack) were not part of the immediate cause of death, they were part of the whole incident and so a suitable topic for a coroners recommendation.  These are sometimes formalised as Rule 34 recommendations (stop giggling at the back) of the Coroner of Inquests Rules 1988 and can be made to any authority - not necessarily even Manx.  Here's one here to a Scottish NHS Trust for example, even though in that case it isn't about the official cause of death (which was suicide).  So it's an explicit part of the inquest process here.

Like the other Rule 34, you'd hope that these were available somewhere on the internet, but the online publication of inquest reports, like that of many other court judgments, is pretty scanty on the Isle of Man.  The Daley Mathison inquest isn't online yet and we only know about it because one of the BBC people actually went and did some reporting.  I've not been able to find a copy of the 1988 rules either.

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Interestingly the 1914-1919 coroners inquest reports were held under the 100 year embargo rules at the PRO - I did query this when I was researching Knockaloe as they were open to the public and the newspaper reports in some cases are more accurate or detailed than the inquest reports - I still had to wait until Jan of 2020 to see those for 1919.

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14 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Twice. Remember the horse. 
We can do better than this for a few shillings in the till. Yeah and I don’t believe the bollocks accounts they provide to justify the deaths. 
The TT and MGP are and always were thrilling to watch. The consequences are not easily justified, if at all. Just call it quits and move on to something else.

Wild rabbits and birds have also caused accidents, here and at GP short circuits. I remember a Cobra causing an accident at the Malaysian GP, a Seagull causing a crash in Australia, and have seen hares chasing bikes on the continent. 

What do you think we should move on to Dilli, any ideas? 

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