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Neil Down

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Just to flip this get rid of the President role on its head why not get rid of the Speaker role instead? 

The Speaker is an elected Member who, once elected, can't speak on primary legislation or ask questions in the Keys -a waste for constituents. Why not get rid of the Speaker and have the President preside over all three Chambers with Legislative Council sitting on a Wednesday?

The position of President could either continue to be elected as is on the last sitting in July before a General Election (electing a member nearing retirement age or one who's given up like Watterson) or it could be a position that the Clerk or someone employed on a five year contract could fill (bit like non-exec members of the statutory boards).

If you are employing someone then you obviously don't want to call them President in case they get ideas of grandeur (*cough* Watterson *cough*) so simply call them the "Chair" or some other such nonsense name.

 

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22 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Just to flip this get rid of the President role on its head why not get rid of the Speaker role instead? 

The Speaker is an elected Member who, once elected, can't speak on primary legislation or ask questions in the Keys -a waste for constituents. Why not get rid of the Speaker and have the President preside over all three Chambers with Legislative Council sitting on a Wednesday?

The position of President could either continue to be elected as is on the last sitting in July before a General Election (electing a member nearing retirement age or one who's given up like Watterson) or it could be a position that the Clerk or someone employed on a five year contract could fill (bit like non-exec members of the statutory boards).

If you are employing someone then you obviously don't want to call them President in case they get ideas of grandeur (*cough* Watterson *cough*) so simply call them the "Chair" or some other such nonsense name.

 

That won''t work simply because these people love grandiose titles. They care little to nothing about the people who voted them in. 

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Oh my! Just get rid of the current system. An all island elected body of 10 folk, no pomp and circumstance, electorate elected chief minister, half the CS management, just for a start.

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6 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Oh my! Just get rid of the current system. An all island elected body of 10 folk, no pomp and circumstance, electorate elected chief minister, half the CS management, just for a start.

Anytime you elect anyone you get pomp and ceremony. So don't elect appoint everyone like jury service. Serve for a year or two only to stop anyone getting comfortable. The job is scrutinise the civil service; and if there are any major decision to be taken this done by referendum.

Edited by Ham_N_Eggs
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15 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Anytime you elect anyone you get pomp and ceremony. So don't elect appoint everyone like jury service. Serve for a year or two only to stop anyone getting comfortable. The job is scrutinise the civil service; and if there are any major decision to be taken this done by referendum.

more importantly, stop with the plus percentages on the salaries for different roles

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Why do you think he's announced his candidacy so early and publicly. This sort of thing is usually done via quiet conversations amongst the Tynwald electorate. And Watterson probably doesn't need a life raft - in 2016 he was 800 votes ahead of Skelly and 1000 ahead of third place and as Speaker he's avoided the blame for the errors the Government have made.

I wonder if someone else is sniffing around the role - Quayle perhaps?

 

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18 minutes ago, Declan said:

Why do you think he's announced his candidacy so early and publicly. This sort of thing is usually done via quiet conversations amongst the Tynwald electorate. And Watterson probably doesn't need a life raft - in 2016 he was 800 votes ahead of Skelly and 1000 ahead of third place and as Speaker he's avoided the blame for the errors the Government have made.

I wonder if someone else is sniffing around the role - Quayle perhaps?

 

Because he's got a rather large ego.

As for the life raft you would think he didn't need it but some of his constituents were annoyed when he took the Speakers role and now he is saying to then he doesn't give two figs about them. It is a bold gamble and you have to ask yourself is he well liked enough by his fellow Tynwald Members to get in? Personally I'm not convinced.

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1 hour ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Just to flip this get rid of the President role on its head why not get rid of the Speaker role instead? 

The Speaker is an elected Member who, once elected, can't speak on primary legislation or ask questions in the Keys -a waste for constituents. Why not get rid of the Speaker and have the President preside over all three Chambers with Legislative Council sitting on a Wednesday?

The position of President could either continue to be elected as is on the last sitting in July before a General Election (electing a member nearing retirement age or one who's given up like Watterson) or it could be a position that the Clerk or someone employed on a five year contract could fill (bit like non-exec members of the statutory boards).

If you are employing someone then you obviously don't want to call them President in case they get ideas of grandeur (*cough* Watterson *cough*) so simply call them the "Chair" or some other such nonsense name.

 

That sounds a sensible idea and one that should fall into the mix, if a review of the functions and procedures of Tynwald were to take place. Unfortunately, as I said in my earlier post, any such review by the current club members is just not going to happen. They confirmed their non-reforming credentials early on in the term and have continued in that vein since. The only way any reform is going to happen is if the campaign for it gains significant momentum outside of Tynwald and/or some collective of candidates stands in the next GE which commits to a reform, with some clear agenda about the reforms they are committing to. But this is not going to happen any time soon, which is why the political class we have are happy and comfortable with the current arrangements and the continuance of them. Until some political or financial crisis occurs here, which demonstrates that our political system and politicians are not fit for purpose, we will struggle on with the nonsense we have. Reform on the IOM is likely to be reactive rather than proactive; we will be climbing out of the hole rather than avoiding falling into it. 

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1 hour ago, Declan said:

Why do you think he's announced his candidacy so early and publicly. This sort of thing is usually done via quiet conversations amongst the Tynwald electorate. And Watterson probably doesn't need a life raft - in 2016 he was 800 votes ahead of Skelly and 1000 ahead of third place and as Speaker he's avoided the blame for the errors the Government have made.

I wonder if someone else is sniffing around the role - Quayle perhaps?

 

Could be giving firestarter the heads up...

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1 hour ago, Neil Down said:

Could be giving firestarter the heads up...

Oh fuckenell. Car tax up, landowners grants up, roundabouts up etc

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Nothing in Manx politics would depress me more than the return of Gawne. He's the pound-shop messiah to a small clique of nationalists and wool-wearing supporters.

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6 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Oh fuckenell. Car tax up, landowners grants up, roundabouts up etc

And lots of expensive tarmac down. Particularly on small rural roads.

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2 hours ago, Declan said:

Why do you think he's announced his candidacy so early and publicly. This sort of thing is usually done via quiet conversations amongst the Tynwald electorate. And Watterson probably doesn't need a life raft - in 2016 he was 800 votes ahead of Skelly and 1000 ahead of third place and as Speaker he's avoided the blame for the errors the Government have made.

I wonder if someone else is sniffing around the role - Quayle perhaps?

Yes that struck me as odd.  The done thing about these roles is that you're supposed to pretend that you have to forced into them, even if you've been lobbying for years.  The Speaker of the House of Commons is supposed to be dragged towards the chair.

Quayle would be wonderful for comedy value, perpetually getting confused or making mistakes, having to be corrected by the Clerks and then getting huffy about it.  But I can't even him being stupid enough to apply and he might not even have the votes.  The lack of experience in the Keys means there aren't many alternatives (Watterson is implying he's standing as there's no one else to do it and he's not far wrong).  Robertshaw is too lazy and unpopular, though it's possible that someone like Harmer might have a go.

The President has to be "a member of the Keys or an elected member of the Legislative Council" (ie not the Bishop or the AG).  I could imagine Henderson wanting it, but not being chosen.  Poole-Wilson might well be suitable, maybe she's been considered and Watterson wants to send out a warning shot.

2 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

As for the life raft you would think he didn't need it but some of his constituents were annoyed when he took the Speakers role and now he is saying to then he doesn't give two figs about them. It is a bold gamble and you have to ask yourself is he well liked enough by his fellow Tynwald Members to get in? Personally I'm not convinced.

Most of the people who were unhappy with him taking the Speaker's job thought that because they felt he ought to be taking the responsibility of one of the more important Departments.  Ordinary electors don't refuse to vote for you because they think you're competent. 

Tynwald Members might well vote for him as President because they don't particularly like him, or at least in spite of it.  It might remove a competitor for other posts.

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What an awful blow for the credibility of our Island if Mr Watterson was placed in this superficial position but yet again it would fit his credentials pretty well

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