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Posted (edited)

The range of provision, the quality, the access and the style and philosophy of health and social care on the island has quite rightly but sadly been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind due to Covid. The impact on the education system has also been questioned by it.

Both of these services are measures for people to seriously consider by those who may want to have a choice to live here or indeed to stay, return and come over to the island. 

After so many years of seeing not the best standards of health and social care shall we say I am probably more cynical than most about the turn arounds in all sorts of areas that are needed. As recently declared I am just about still hopeful those changes can be achieved. We have some good front line staff here. It the leadership that for me that has let us down.

I live here, have an extended family here and hopefully will (may) have for many years to come and I naturally, like everyone else on here, want only for the best for them. From the very beginning here people have invested their time, money and efforts, known and unknown, in seeking to achieve what they already have. 

But, we need to continually challenge this new leadership and not let them get complacent and we should ensure we now get the mechanisms and resources to monitor what we provide in our names.

Edited by Apple
poor grammar sorry
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Its the obsession with social media that has led them here. HQ and DA frequently refer to it and now these clowns have felt the need to tweet a photo of a meeting.

How about they all forget about Karen on facebook and just get on with their real jobs.

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25 minutes ago, piebaps said:

Its the obsession with social media that has led them here. HQ and DA frequently refer to it and now these clowns have felt the need to tweet a photo of a meeting.

How about they all forget about Karen on facebook and just get on with their real jobs.

Unfortunately Karens cannot be ignored on an election year!

Edited by Dr. Grumpy
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2 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

Why delete the photo you ask.

I would imagine whoever looks after their twitter/facebook page probably got sick of answering the same point despite explaining why it wasn't against the rules you would have people argue that it was. 

But it hasn't stopped people making those points has it?  They've now had to issue press releases doing all that explaining anyway and the deletion just made it look as if they knew they were guilty and were trying to hide the evidence.

In practice I suspect this was standard incompetent Comms Team PR on autopilot.  They just did the sort of thing that is designed to prove that the PR people are doing something, rather than inform the public.  So they produced the standard 'first meeting of the committee' photo without bothering to consider how it would look.  It's interesting that Cope herself seems to have decided to to put out the statement explaining things, though it would be better to have appeared on social media rather than just via Manx Radio.

Incidentally the press release does include a nice piece of 'shade':

"During both Covid-19 outbreaks this year myself and other senior health and social care leaders have made a conscious and unanimous decision to attend work in person.

"It is important that we are both visible and available to support our colleagues working on the frontline in our Island’s fight against this virus.

"On a daily basis we have been providing much-needed support to our frontline teams who have faced an unprecedented level of demand and are working in both clinically difficult and extreme circumstances".

Unlike, she's clearly implying, her predecessor occasionally appearing by Zoom from 300 miles away.

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1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

But it hasn't stopped people making those points has it?  They've now had to issue press releases doing all that explaining anyway and the deletion just made it look as if they knew they were guilty and were trying to hide the evidence.

In practice I suspect this was standard incompetent Comms Team PR on autopilot.  They just did the sort of thing that is designed to prove that the PR people are doing something, rather than inform the public.  So they produced the standard 'first meeting of the committee' photo without bothering to consider how it would look.  It's interesting that Cope herself seems to have decided to to put out the statement explaining things, though it would be better to have appeared on social media rather than just via Manx Radio.

Incidentally the press release does include a nice piece of 'shade':

"During both Covid-19 outbreaks this year myself and other senior health and social care leaders have made a conscious and unanimous decision to attend work in person.

"It is important that we are both visible and available to support our colleagues working on the frontline in our Island’s fight against this virus.

"On a daily basis we have been providing much-needed support to our frontline teams who have faced an unprecedented level of demand and are working in both clinically difficult and extreme circumstances".

Unlike, she's clearly implying, her predecessor occasionally appearing by Zoom from 300 miles away.

Was it ever Kathryn Magson's intention to move here or was she always going to be remote?   If she was here, perhaps she would have picked up the 'water cooler' nuances of how things were, good and bad.

There must never be a senior management position filled by someone who is absent again.  All the Zoom and Team calls in the world don't replace the informal chats and interactions that give a real insight into culture.   

Sure covid will have put plans into disarray, but as we are constantly reminded, there were at least 6 months of normality last year; did she ever visit then? 

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15 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Was it ever Kathryn Magson's intention to move here or was she always going to be remote?   If she was here, perhaps she would have picked up the 'water cooler' nuances of how things were, good and bad.

There must never be a senior management position filled by someone who is absent again.  All the Zoom and Team calls in the world don't replace the informal chats and interactions that give a real insight into culture.   

Sure covid will have put plans into disarray, but as we are constantly reminded, there were at least 6 months of normality last year; did she ever visit then? 

I don’t think it was ever suggested she would live here. She was supposed to be here three days a week, however 14 days quarantine put paid to that. She was/is interim CEO until Manx Care took over and bedded in? Yes? It’s a self limiting role. Big change in job description now. She’s nothing to do with Manx Care, other than head of the commissioning body. No seat at the Executive Managers meeting.

Things like water coolers and mannvend tea/coffee machines were weeded out as expensive fripperies, even for patients, over the last 10 years. Back to kitchens, kettles, hot water flasks. Drinking water comes out of a tap.

When I chair tribunals I get offered tea, coffee, water, and pre ordered butties from Govt Office canteen.

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55 minutes ago, Dr. Grumpy said:

Unfortunately Karens cannot be ignored on an election year!

I think that is true but to a lesser extent now. The politicians have left the building. 

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20 hours ago, Pipsqueak said:

whilst i fully agree with you on this point ( who'd have thought )   the hospital waiting lists were a shit show long before covid turned up to add to the excuses,  IMHO  they deliberately make you wait so that you put your hand in your pocket to go private.

19 hours ago, Newbie said:

You are right about the pre-Covid Waiting lists. With regard the private bit, whilst that might seem to be the case in some specialties, there are others with equally unacceptable waits where few, if any, of the Consultants see private patients/do private operations, so clearly there is more to it than just that.

Replying to this one here rather than on the Covid thread as it seems more appropriate.

While it's true that not all long waiting lists are caused by individual consultants trying to push patients into going private, there has long been a tendency to encourage it generally to 'save' money.  Of course it means that those too poor or principled to use private healthcare will suffer, but that didn't seem to worry the DHSC management.

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7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think it was ever suggested she would live here. She was supposed to be here three days a week, however 14 days quarantine put paid to that. She was/is interim CEO until Manx Care took over and bedded in? Yes? It’s a self limiting role. Big change in job description now. She’s nothing to do with Manx Care, other than head of the commissioning body. No seat at the Executive Managers meeting.

Things like water coolers and mannvend tea/coffee machines were weeded out as expensive fripperies, even for patients, over the last 10 years. Back to kitchens, kettles, hot water flasks. Drinking water comes out of a tap.

When I chair tribunals I get offered tea, coffee, water, and pre ordered butties from Govt Office canteen.

Thanks John, the three day week rings a bell.  

I am sure you dont misunderstand my water cooler comment, it is about getting the culture first hand rather than through the layers of filter that will inevitably be applied if your information is coming from limited hierarchical sources. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Gladys said:

There must never be a senior management position filled by someone who is absent again.  All the Zoom and Team calls in the world don't replace the informal chats and interactions that give a real insight into culture.   

 

Totally agreed. How can anyone not be here and yet be held accountable.

(That may also be an issue involving  the Dr Glover communications problems). Managing by email always fails eventually.

22 minutes ago, John Wright said:

She was/is interim CEO until Manx Care took over and bedded in? Yes? It’s a self limiting role. Big change in job description now.

That was my understanding too. The question is, do we need two of them now? The handover should be completed soon and Barbara Scott knows that place like the back of her hand. Good appointment in my view. She misses not a lot. 

20 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

While it's true that not all long waiting lists are caused by individual consultants trying to push patients into going private, there has long been a tendency to encourage it generally to 'save' money.  Of course it means that those too poor or principled to use private healthcare will suffer, but that didn't seem to worry the DHSC management.

Most of the Consultants played it straight but there was one or two. 

The biggest problem was, and is going to be, the amount of NHS time that is taken to deliver Consultant lead care for private patients. Separation of hours, equipment and staff time needs it's own systems to record and monitor to enable correct billing. 

Just for the record there were serious concerns raised by several clinical staff and managers about private care usage in Nobles hospital but the politicians had very firmly set their sights on it being a necessary "money maker" to supplement the hospital budgets. As they have now of course.

Personally I would give this new private provider whoever it may be just 3 years to set up the own complete system outside of Nobles. Only then I think would we see a reduction in our absurdly long waiting lists. And that is when the first period of Manx Care mandate is due for serious review I gather.

Edited by Apple
handover rather than hangover - maybe not that much of a mistake really
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3 hours ago, 2112 said:

I’m pleased this meeting was mentioned by the Nations Propaganda Mouthpiece this morning. Lots of comments and justifications. I’m only surprised the IOMG Rebuttal Unit the new 24 hour service set up by the Council of Ministers, to smear anyone who disagrees and raises concerns, didn’t get involved, and smear the messenger who picked up the original twitter message and retweeted. 
 

A general observation of the picture, though some of the participants looked rather ‘portly’ not a good image to set when as Manx Care they will no doubt get involved in public health campaigns. The same applies to the cans of ‘pop’ not a good image. Are there no water coolers in Crookall House boardroom? Finally if having a meeting, perhaps some could bother wearing appropriate and more business attire. I would be expected to wear a suit. Image especially when it’s being communicated.

Are all the Manx care management team new people to the Island or are they just re-cycled CS from here? If the latter is the case nothing will change as they were most probably the cause of the problems at the DHSC. If they were from Off Island did they have to quarantine prior to this meeting? I am a bit concerned looking at the closeness of the participants and social distancing clearly does not apply, just asking as a simple pleb!

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42 minutes ago, Gladys said:

There must never be a senior management position filled by someone who is absent again.  All the Zoom and Team calls in the world don't replace the informal chats and interactions that give a real insight into culture.   

A lot of us pointed this out when she was appointed.  Of course this may have been why she was appointed - someone who couldn't be there, so the old guard could continue doing whatever they wanted.  Given that the majority of the Directors of Manx Care don't live on the Island, they appear to be trying to continue with the principle.

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32 minutes ago, Apple said:

(That may also be an issue involving  the Dr Glover communications problems). Managing by email always fails eventually.

Yes, I thought that too after listening to the hearing. Maybe if they'd been able to sit down around a table they could've worked things out to everyone's satisfaction. It's much easier to dismiss another person's needs, expertise and opinions via email. It's also all too easy - wilfully or not - to misunderstand the other person's meaning. 

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2 hours ago, Apple said:

Totally agreed. How can anyone not be here and yet be held accountable.

(That may also be an issue involving  the Dr Glover communications problems). Managing by email always fails eventually.

That was my understanding too. The question is, do we need two of them now? The handover should be completed soon and Barbara Scott knows that place like the back of her hand. Good appointment in my view. She misses not a lot. 

Most of the Consultants played it straight but there was one or two. 

The biggest problem was, and is going to be, the amount of NHS time that is taken to deliver Consultant lead care for private patients. Separation of hours, equipment and staff time needs it's own systems to record and monitor to enable correct billing. 

Just for the record there were serious concerns raised by several clinical staff and managers about private care usage in Nobles hospital but the politicians had very firmly set their sights on it being a necessary "money maker" to supplement the hospital budgets. As they have now of course.

Personally I would give this new private provider whoever it may be just 3 years to set up the own complete system outside of Nobles. Only then I think would we see a reduction in our absurdly long waiting lists. And that is when the first period of Manx Care mandate is due for serious review I gather.

I hope that Nobles accounts people are now up to the job. At one time the billing of theatre and other associated costs to the consultants/insurers was woefully behind, up to 6 months in some cases I'm told.

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