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@Boo Gay'n

I take your point so please let me translate:

Would it not be something akin to :

These type of problems were first identified under the Chief Minister's term as Health Minister but he did nothing except to sod off to New Zealand with Mr Charmers. Boy, was that fun for both of them (best driver ?). They came back with a Map which we all were told to follow. Charters nearly lasted a full year but was got rid of let go before he became permanent. We got rid of the Social Services Director (she was doing too well and showing up the rest).

Then Quayle got CM and Beecroft came in, now we suspected she was set up to fail anyway.  Then several Senior Manager appointments were made but again generally there was still something missing. Some senior people fell out, people could not work in the same building, people went crying to the CM, Beecroft was retired on health grounds I hear  and I (David Ashford Project manager) came on board. Tah - Dah.

I took one look around and thought "Sod this for a game of soldiers" and went to Howard and Alf to ask for help. They set me up with Sir Johnny Micheals and eventually he did a fantastic report, but it was far too long really. They paid for it though. (nearly a million by the end of it I reckon). 

During that time though things still did not improve. So we set about changing the staff by using bullying and harassment style of management (the latest fad) on those we wanted out. We lost some good un's as well and we didn't care or realise the impact on other staff and certainly not the patients but we didn't count that as important. We rubbished people's reputations, shouted at one or two, ignored some others, kicked some out of office behind their backs, generally told them In or Out - make your mind up and get on board , or not. What fun it was in those days. 

Mental health services was an absolute riot, we never had so much fun. Then that Dr Dickenson had to do his first report. Couldn't have just stayed quiet, could he. Oh no, he had to alert everyone and his dog to what was becoming a bit of a dog's dinner. And after all the new build and those glossy wellbeing pamphlets we did. We closed beds, moved things around just to disorientate people, made staff work in areas they didn't want to and we took on agency and bank staff like no tomorrow.

We had read about the Tinwell situation but didn't do anything - these things just have to be left to run their course you know. I mean, now we knew it was all going per shaped but we thought she would just leave I think. Anyway, the comments about what some staff called the clients in the CAMHS team and their parents just was not true. It couldn't be really, could it?

Social services were just left to get on with it themselves. Social workers were drafted in as agency staff but the systems, practices and standards in the UK were different. Caused one or two problem I hear. They did their best though.

So we removed some people, played management Bingo with others, created some new structures and leadership groups, and moved some Managers out, showed others the door and meanwhile Treasury came up with the money for Jonathan Micheals white elephant of a UK style NHS that was slowly strangling the UK NHS to death. Manx solutions for Manx problems wasn't really the mantra then. But we had to go down that route, we had nowhere else left to go. 

So my answers are now that I have created and arranged for our statutory services, volunteer and charity groups and new off island "friend'  all working together means I  can have a cheaper more cost effective health and social care service, with written guidelines so managers can insist medical staff operate only as we tell them to and prescribe only what we wanyt patients to have etc etc. That what all these new Directors and Managers are for to tell our Consultants and GP's (not yet but eventually when they are all salaried)how to run a health and social services properly. 

As an example I have made arrangements for Spire to do out Breast cared ladies (that was the company that use our fried Mr Patterson who is now in prison) but let's not dwell on that. Its for our won good.

Now, I can claim to have sorted out our sadly failing health and social care services, new people , new money, and. no political accounytability involvement. I really don't know what the next health and  social care Minister is going to do to full their days. Nothing left for them to do. Manx Care has around 15 new Directors and they are all working jolly hard and "pieces of work" and working on capacity issues and Covid and working jolly hard when they come over to the island. Some have been over twice in 4 months so they may need a rest soon. 

As I keep saying - Manx Solutions for Manx problem (er...bring in the English).?

-----------------------------------------------

Caveat - Of course, none of this is remotely true and some details have been left out to protect the innocent. It is purely for fun.

Seriously though, there is one on the Manx Care Board member who stands out head and shoulders above the rest. I hope that person stays. 

 

Edited by Apple
typos and remove scurrilous gossip
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54 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

Does anyone know what that blather means?

"Help!  Help!!  I want my Mummy!!!".

Of course a relevant question here is that he has been in charge for all that period, why didn't he act to have the case settled?  Hiding behind 'staffing matter' isn't really acceptable, sometimes Ministers have to intervene when the organisation itself is the problem.  There's no one else to do it.

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1 hour ago, Boo Gay'n said:

On the Tinwell question, I just had a skeet at Hansard, page 67.  You see the classical problem when politicians have small brains with slow processors - they flounder as soon as they are off script.  Look at this classic when the Boy Vampire is asked about 'a culture of bullying and managing out'.

In relation to the point in relation to culture, speaking personally, if I may, I do think there have been issues with culture. I think there have been some severe issues with culture. I have got to be honest that some of the things that I have read in relation to this I most certainly am not happy with, (A Member: Hear, hear.) and I do not believe it was appropriate behaviours whatsoever and it should not be appropriate or condoned in any organisation. (A Member: Hear, hear.) In relation to disciplinary matters, of course that is a staffing matter. A lot of the individuals that were referred to have now departed the Department, in one way or another, but I think that now what we need to do is ensure that we address any cultural issues. There have been cultural pieces ongoing certainly for the whole time that I have been Minister, which is now getting on for nearly four years, to try and address some of the issues. But most definitely I do not shy away from the fact that there are culture and behavioural issues that were long rooted in the Department that were completely unacceptable.

Does anyone know what that blather means?

I’ve no idea but I do know that while reading, all I could hear was the voice of Donald Trump. Scary. 

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13 minutes ago, Apple said:

@Boo Gay'n

I take your point so please let me translate:

Would it not be something akin to :

These type of problems were first identified under the Chief Minister's term as Health Minister but he did nothing except to sod off to New Zealand with Mr Charmers. Boy, was that fun for both of them (best driver ?). They came back with a Map which we all were told to follow. Charters nearly lasted a full year but was got rid of let go before he became permanent. We got rid of the Social Services Director (she was doing too well and showing up the rest).

Then Quayle got CM and Beecroft came in, now we suspected she was set up to fail anyway.  Then several Senior Manager appointments were made but again generally there was still something missing. Some senior people fell out, people could not work in the same building, people went crying to the CM, Beecroft was retired on health grounds I hear  and I (David Ashford Project manager) came on board. Tah - Dah.

I took one look around and thought "Sod this for a game of soldiers" and went to Howard and Alf to ask for help. They set me up with Sir Johnny Micheals and eventually he did a fantastic report, but it was far too long really. They paid for it though. (nearly a million by the end of it I reckon). 

During that time though things still did not improve. So we set about changing the staff by using bullying and harassment style of management (the latest fad) on those we wanted out. We lost some good un's as well and we didn't care or realise the impact on other staff and certainly not the patients but we didn't count that as important. We rubbished people's reputations, shouted at one or two, ignored some others, kicked some out of office behind their backs, generally told them In or Out - make your mind up and get on board , or not. What fun it was in those days. 

Mental health services was an absolute riot, we never had so much fun. Then that Dr Dickenson had to do his first report. Couldn't have just stayed quiet, could he. Oh no, he had to alert everyone and his dog to what was becoming a bit of a dog's dinner. And after all the new build and those glossy wellbeing pamphlets we did. We closed beds, moved things around just to disorientate people, made staff work in areas they didn't want to and we took on agency and bank staff like no tomorrow.

We had read about the Tinwell situation but didn't do anything - these things just have to be left to run their course you know. I mean, now we knew it was all going per shaped but we thought she would just leave I think. Anyway, the comments about what some staff called the clients in the CAMHS team and their parents just was not true. It couldn't be really, could it?

Social services were just left to get on with it themselves. Social workers were drafted in as agency staff but the systems, practices and standards in the UK were different. Caused one or two problem I hear. They did their best though.

So we removed some people, played management Bingo with others, created some new structures and leadership groups, and moved some Managers out, showed others the door and meanwhile Treasury came up with the money for Jonathan Micheals white elephant of a UK style NHS that was slowly strangling the UK NHS to death. Manx solutions for Manx problems wasn't really the mantra then. But we had to go down that route, we had nowhere else left to go. 

So my answers are now that I have created and arranged for our statutory services, volunteer and charity groups and new off island "friend'  all working together means I  can have a cheaper more cost effective health and social care service, with written guidelines so managers can insist medical staff operate only as we tell them to and prescribe only what we wanyt patients to have etc etc. That what all these new Directors and Managers are for to tell our Consultants and GP's (not yet but eventually when they are all salaried)how to run a health and social services properly. 

As an example I have made arrangements for Spire to do out Breast cared ladies (that was the company that use our fried Mr Patterson who is now in prison) but let's not dwell on that. Its for our won good.

Now, I can claim to have sorted out our sadly failing health and social care services, new people , new money, and. no political accounytability involvement. I really don't know what the next health and  social care Minister is going to do to full their days. Nothing left for them to do. Manx Care has around 15 new Directors and they are all working jolly hard and "pieces of work" and working on capacity issues and Covid and working jolly hard when they come over to the island. Some have been over twice in 4 months so they may need a rest soon. 

As I keep saying - Manx Solutions for Manx problem (er...bring in the English).?

-----------------------------------------------

Caveat - Of course, none of this is remotely true and some details have been left out to protect the innocent. It is purely for fun.

Seriously though, there is one on the Manx Care Board member who stands out head and shoulders above the rest. I hope that person stays. 

 

That is also scary and at the same time, scarily accurate. 

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This DHSC/Manx Care illustration - thank you Apple - is salutary. If the electorate doesn’t (finally) get its act together on 23/9 and empty the dross - replacing it with people who have a brain they actually use (let us hope at least some candidates satisfy that definition) we are truly screwed. The abject incompetence and lack of talent displayed over the last five years, starting with you Quayle, cannot continue. If it does, we’re on the skids.

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29 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

This DHSC/Manx Care illustration - thank you Apple - is salutary. If the electorate doesn’t (finally) get its act together on 23/9 and empty the dross - replacing it with people who have a brain they actually use (let us hope at least some candidates satisfy that definition) we are truly screwed. The abject incompetence and lack of talent displayed over the last five years, starting with you Quayle, cannot continue. If it does, we’re on the skids.

Do you not have a positive bone in your body?

Cassandra has been in touch to say she has been beaten by a better woman.

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16 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Do you not have a positive bone in your body?

Cassandra has been in touch to say she has been beaten by a better woman.

It is attitudes such as this that apply a school nativity play level of scrutiny which allows the incompetents to get in. 

You say you have lived here for many decades.  I suggest you broaden your horizons to be able to recognise the incompetence we are living with.  I love this place and wouldn't be anywhere else, but I can see the appalling standard of our current mob of politicians.  Just one fiasco after another.  It was less critical when there was plenty of money sloshing around, but we no longer have that luxury.

Rather than being the voice of reason, you are the voice of complacency. 

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5 hours ago, Roxanne said:

But most definitely I do not shy away from the fact that there are culture and behavioural issues that were long rooted in the Department that were completely unacceptable.

Only daylight you shy away from then is it David? 😋

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I wonder if consultants are ripping the NHS off, someone I know has been back and forth to the hospital having consultations that consist of "pointless questions" - the facts are right there, can be seen and the effects of the condition don't need years of medical training to work out. This seems to happen quite often, my son was back and forth to the hearing clinic and nothing ever happened.

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1 hour ago, 2bees said:

I wonder if consultants are ripping the NHS off, someone I know has been back and forth to the hospital having consultations that consist of "pointless questions" - the facts are right there, can be seen and the effects of the condition don't need years of medical training to work out. This seems to happen quite often, my son was back and forth to the hearing clinic and nothing ever happened.

There is no doubt at all that the medical consultants have been ripping us off for years.  You can't necessarily blame individual doctors, as most of them reap the benefits of super-sweet deals fixed up by their BMA union reps over the years.  You end up with a system where the cost:productivity ratio is skewed totally in the wrong direction.

There are factors to consider like the difficulty of recruiting to a professional backwater (which often means that we get duffers), but the income received by some consultants is eye-watering in comparison to across.

Your example though highlights efficiency and effectiveness issues.  Are the 'professional' people that we employ any good at what they are supposed to be doing?  Secondly, is the system designed to give the best possible service to the 'consumer' or, even, those working in it?  Sadly, the answer to both questions is probably no.

As with the many discussions that MF members have had about our politicians, we have this long tradition of accepting mediocrity at best and shit-awful at worst as acceptable in the Isle of Man.

Complain, make your opinion about piss-poor service known.  If enough of us do that, the oil tanker will change course!

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1 hour ago, 2bees said:

I wonder if consultants are ripping the NHS off, someone I know has been back and forth to the hospital having consultations that consist of "pointless questions" - the facts are right there, can be seen and the effects of the condition don't need years of medical training to work out. This seems to happen quite often, my son was back and forth to the hearing clinic and nothing ever happened.

I don't see how this would mean 'ripping the NHS off' - we don't get paid per clinic visit, and as everyone knows we're not short of people that want to be seen.  And as far as I'm aware there is no private practice going on so we're not artificially bumping up waiting lists to generate NHS to Private transfers.

I'm what's known as an 'aggressive discharger' - I only review patients where there's a good chance the review will add something to their management.  I get a few complaints from patients who want to be seen again, even though in my opinion it's not necessary.  Sometimes I feel we can't win.

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OMG I totally didn't mean you! I meant ones that are brought in... oh that might mean you - oops, sorry. If it eases the pain, I'm not talking about your area :)

There is a problem though. The 'SIK' has seen 2 different people about a very obvious problem and the resolutions are totally simple & could be started without further delay, but no, sent back to see someone else (again) and told we'll see you again in 6 months blah blah blah & then maybe progress with some treatment.  

I like your aggressive discharger tag :) I was the worst ever maternity patient, I made one appointment and then had a baby.

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1 hour ago, 2bees said:

OMG I totally didn't mean you! I meant ones that are brought in... oh that might mean you - oops, sorry. If it eases the pain, I'm not talking about your area :)

There is a problem though. The 'SIK' has seen 2 different people about a very obvious problem and the resolutions are totally simple & could be started without further delay, but no, sent back to see someone else (again) and told we'll see you again in 6 months blah blah blah & then maybe progress with some treatment.  

I like your aggressive discharger tag :) I was the worst ever maternity patient, I made one appointment and then had a baby.

It's much cheaper to fob you off until you snuff it or go private (across) than actually treat you!

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