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11 minutes ago, Chris C said:

The offshore ones yes. But onshore wind turbines are now as cheap or cheaper than any other form of electricity generation, and we have some of the best wind statistics of anywhere in the world. 

There is no economic or practical reason why we shouldn't be producing most of our energy from renewables. 

They are cheaper now since the introduction of a levy against the production of electricity using carbon, artificially cheaper really, although onshore farms would be cheaper to install and maintain. We would be applying a levy against Manx Utilities and paying it to...probably Manx Utilities? 

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Should they? I'd say they have the right, in a free a democratic society, to be 'more concerned' about whatever they choose.

Not climate campaigners in reality. There is no "climate emergency" that needs addressing on this island (or anywhere else for that matter). These kids are using the climate as a flag of convenience.

They could very easily stick some bloody wind turbines in the sea. Just look east, there are thousands of them, we don't have any and its always windy. Its bonkers that we have none.

For such an important and concerning subject there is not a lot of enthusiasm about at the minute perhaps we are all a bit pandemic weary.   It does need a concerted effort to try and combat this attitude that if nothing is done it will go away it won’t, and virtue signaling is not good enough,  the tipping point will come soon and when it becomes our grandchildren’s problem it may be too late.

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2 hours ago, GD4XXX said:

Capitalism is far from perfect, I admit it, but it's the least-worst wealth-creating model yet formulated by mankind and infinitely preferable to their precious Communism with its inevitable mass starvations and persecution/imprisonment of all dissenters.

Ah yes, capitalism would never do any of that...

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2 hours ago, Max Power said:

They are cheaper now since the introduction of a levy against the production of electricity using carbon, artificially cheaper really, although onshore farms would be cheaper to install and maintain. We would be applying a levy against Manx Utilities and paying it to...probably Manx Utilities? 

Onshore wind is cheaper without taking the carbon levy into account, so not artificially cheaper. The more they are used the cheaper they will become. Solar PV is going the same way and its technology is advancing very quickly. 

The economic argument against renewables really doesn't stand up anymore.

The Manx government could and should be an example to the world. We could easily have been net 0 by now and it needn't cost a fortune,  although I conceed that any capital project they embark on invariably does. 

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On 9/25/2020 at 11:18 PM, Non-Believer said:

Reminds me of a man who owned an up-market furniture shop, did a lot of business in furniture manufactured from endangered exotic hardwoods, mainly from the Far East. Couldn't sell enough of it. He also claimed to be an environmental activist and regularly attended demonstrations, including the big one in Peel about 20 years ago.

One day somebody challenged him about the conflict. The response was to giggle and walk away. 

So you can't have principles about anything unless you are 100% correct in everything you do, at any time? It's very, very easy to belittle climate change activists by suggesting that they can never drive anywhere or they're hypocrites. Neatly sidesteps you from having to consider their message by just focusing on slating the message-bringer.

Wood is a renewable resource and mahogany can be sustainable depending on where it is sourced, managed plantations do exist. However if there is a genuine concern about mahogany sourced from rainforests and other non-sustainable sources, it should be banned by Governments to import it. It should not be down to people making their own moral choices as one woman's morals are another woman's chains.

 

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1 hour ago, Butterflies said:

So you can't have principles about anything unless you are 100% correct in everything you do, at any time? It's very, very easy to belittle climate change activists by suggesting that they can never drive anywhere or they're hypocrites. Neatly sidesteps you from having to consider their message by just focusing on slating the message-bringer.

Wood is a renewable resource and mahogany can be sustainable depending on where it is sourced, managed plantations do exist. However if there is a genuine concern about mahogany sourced from rainforests and other non-sustainable sources, it should be banned by Governments to import it. It should not be down to people making their own moral choices as one woman's morals are another woman's chains.

 

Climate change activists, in my experience, spend most of their time belittling and criticising everybody else, whilst having little apparent regard for their own environmental transgressions. But that's them, so that's ok then. Oddly enough that disregard also frequently occurs where money is involved....hypocrisy of the worst type. Nor should it be down to Governments to molly-coddle and nappy-change individual's morals. People are developed enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

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2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Climate change activists, in my experience, spend most of their time belittling and criticising everybody else, whilst having little apparent regard for their own environmental transgressions. But that's them, so that's ok then.

But that's not what they are doing is it? The are peacefully protesting outside Tynwald because they would like Government to do more about climate change- mainly due to the mounting scientific evidence that if they don't the world will be a much poorer place for generations to come. 

If you don't agree with them then that's fine, but the lengths you are going to in order to criticise and belittle them is just making you look like a bit of an idiot in all honesty. 

I really can't see why anyone would be so offended by such an inoffensive way of trying to improve the world, whether you agree with it or not.

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3 hours ago, Chris C said:

But that's not what they are doing is it? The are peacefully protesting outside Tynwald because they would like Government to do more about climate change- mainly due to the mounting scientific evidence that if they don't the world will be a much poorer place for generations to come. 

If you don't agree with them then that's fine, but the lengths you are going to in order to criticise and belittle them is just making you look like a bit of an idiot in all honesty. 

I really can't see why anyone would be so offended by such an inoffensive way of trying to improve the world, whether you agree with it or not.

It's not that I don't agree with them; they have some very valid points and I'm certainly not greatly offended in any way, shape or form. Why and where am I trying to belittle them?

What I have little or no time for the hypocrisy that is exhibited and the holier than thou approach; a single example of which I posted earlier. The fact that you've described me above as " a bit of an idiot" for expressing my view simply serves to reinforce my opinion.

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2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

It's not that I don't agree with them; they have some very valid points and I'm certainly not greatly offended in any way, shape or form. Why and where am I trying to belittle them?

What I have little or no time for the hypocrisy that is exhibited and the holier than thou approach; a single example of which I posted earlier. The fact that you've described me above as " a bit of an idiot" for expressing my view simply serves to reinforce my opinion.

But the example your posted earlier related to a single gentleman at a protest 20 years ago. Most of the participants at the event this thread refers to were probably not even born when it happened. 

You're belittling them by saying they have no "apparent regard for their own environmental transgressions ", without any idea whether they do or not, nor whether they even have any environmental transgressions, whatever you define them to be. 

I called you an idiot not because I'm a hypocrite,  not because I'm holier than thou, nor have I  been in any of my responses to you, it's because you're acting like an idiot. I may lack a little grace in pointing it out,  but that doesn't make it untrue. 

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1 hour ago, Chris C said:

But the example your posted earlier related to a single gentleman at a protest 20 years ago. Most of the participants at the event this thread refers to were probably not even born when it happened. 

You're belittling them by saying they have no "apparent regard for their own environmental transgressions ", without any idea whether they do or not, nor whether they even have any environmental transgressions, whatever you define them to be. 

I called you an idiot not because I'm a hypocrite,  not because I'm holier than thou, nor have I  been in any of my responses to you, it's because you're acting like an idiot. I may lack a little grace in pointing it out,  but that doesn't make it untrue. 

But there you go again, describing me as "an idiot" because I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of one or more people.

Let me explain something to you. I'm fully signed up to the theory of anthropological global warming. I would be "an idiot" to deny the theory, the evidence is incontrovertible. But within my life I'm constrained by finances, the technology available to me and the fact that this world is governed not democratically but by multi billion dollar global corporations. But I don't go around protesting and lecturing people about the same lifestyle, how they shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that. Because they're in the same boat, whether they like it or not. And I'd be a hypocrite if I did.

How many climate change protestors rock up to demonstrations in their or mum and dad's fossil fuel powered car? How many by fossil fuel powered public transport? When they've finished protesting, how much difference will they have made? How many will go to the fossil fuel heated and lit pub? Or back to their similarly heated and lit homes? And how many will for years to come because it's the only viable option they have to live with?

It's hypocrisy - it may have a laudable aim - but hypocrisy none the less. And so is selling furniture made out of endangered butchered tropical hardwoods whilst purporting to be an environmentalist.

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1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

I don't go around protesting and lecturing people about the same lifestyle, how they shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that.

But they're not. They're protesting/campaigning at the Government. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's very little individuals can do about climate change.

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Just now, HeliX said:

But they're not. They're protesting/campaigning at the Government. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's very little individuals can do about climate change.

 Not a lot we can do en masse neither . Just a game played on several levels. 

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2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

But they're not. They're protesting/campaigning at the Government. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's very little individuals can do about climate change.

Hang on a mo - I've just been called "an idiot" on these boards for extolling a completely realistic point of view. Is that somebody not being lectured (or insulted) in the name of their belief?

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