Chief Constables Report 19/20. Latest distribution of Tripe

[Neil Down 7,769]

whatever happened to the mountain bikes they were presented with a few years ago. I honestly can not remember the last time I saw any plod out on a bike

[thommo2010 1,762]

4 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

They must be hiding then because I haven't seen one for a year or two. I thought there weren't any dedicated traffic cops but I may be wrong. .....Flinty, what's the score?

Yes there is a traffic decision. 5 officers and a sergeant 

[doc.fixit 2,640]

For the whole island? Are they on bicycles or are they allowed a car?

[Derek Flint 3,909]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:49 PM, Apple said:

I think that was the strategy under Watterson but then it all changed. It would still be my preferred option as well as at the moment there is never a bobby in these new local places when you need / want one. 

Will Mr Cregeen bring back bobbies on the neighbourhood beat?  

The Chief makes the decisions on policing. 

On 10/14/2020 at 1:35 PM, doc.fixit said:

They must be hiding then because I haven't seen one for a year or two. I thought there weren't any dedicated traffic cops but I may be wrong. .....Flinty, what's the score?

 

21 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

Yes there is a traffic decision. 5 officers and a sergeant 

That is getting worse again. When I took over RPU the first time in 2005 I had 2 sergeants and 12 constables. By the end of the year it was one sergeant and eight, and it continued to be battered. One of the poorest senior management decisions of our time, and instrumental in demonstrating their true attitude towards road safety, and why we’ve never really made any headway into improving the collision stats or road safety in general.

Some of us really did give a shit about this, because it is important. But until it’s position as a strategic priority is really cemented, Little will change.

[Augustus 304]

Douglas is basically just a free-for-all, entirely reliant on members of the public to comply with traffic rules. This is all in the absence of any traffic police presence to speak of.  No wonder there is little respect for yellow lines, illegal parking next to difficult intersections, knobheads roaring around with overly loud exhausts, etc. There will always be people who need the stick. In the absence of the stick, they will do what suits themselves.

[joebean 774]

What we need is less reports written by the Chief Constable; a report written by an independent inspection body; more robust scrutiny and policy oversight by an independent body set up for that purpose and, last but not least, a Chief Constable who is capable of exerting positive leadership of the Constabulary rather than the current self-congratulatory, smug stagnation. If detection rates, crime, public safety and satisfaction are heading in the wrong direction there is only one direction to look to find who is accountable. Currently, he is effectively accountable to no-one and writes his own report. 

[manxst 279]

20 minutes ago, joebean said:

What we need is less reports written by the Chief Constable; a report written by an independent inspection body; more robust scrutiny and policy oversight by an independent body set up for that purpose and, last but not least, a Chief Constable who is capable of exerting positive leadership of the Constabulary rather than the current self-congratulatory, smug stagnation. If detection rates, crime, public safety and satisfaction are heading in the wrong direction there is only one direction to look to find who is accountable. Currently, he is effectively accountable to no-one and writes his own report. 

Not to mention a separate Police Complaints process whereby any complaints against the police aren’t investigated....by the police themselves. How that is open, honest and transparent when one officer in an adjoining office is looking into the alleged conduct of his/her mate in the next room in beyond me. It’s hardly indicative of anything approaching a modern outlook, and doesn’t promote trust in the service at all. 

[Derek Flint 3,909]

1 hour ago, joebean said:

What we need is less reports written by the Chief Constable; a report written by an independent inspection body; more robust scrutiny and policy oversight by an independent body set up for that purpose and, last but not least, a Chief Constable who is capable of exerting positive leadership of the Constabulary rather than the current self-congratulatory, smug stagnation. If detection rates, crime, public safety and satisfaction are heading in the wrong direction there is only one direction to look to find who is accountable. Currently, he is effectively accountable to no-one and writes his own report. 

The need for an HMIC inspection is long overdue, but I don’t think you’ll see one until after Gary retires.

52 minutes ago, manxst said:

Not to mention a separate Police Complaints process whereby any complaints against the police aren’t investigated....by the police themselves. How that is open, honest and transparent when one officer in an adjoining office is looking into the alleged conduct of his/her mate in the next room in beyond me. It’s hardly indicative of anything approaching a modern outlook, and doesn’t promote trust in the service at all. 

I think this is a little unfair, having carried out investigations myself. You play it with a straight bat, compile the facts and then it goes to the Complaints Commissioner to adjudicate on. Police regulations now accept there is a difference between genuine mistakes, and bad/naughty. 

[Roger Mexico 8,755]

9 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The need for an HMIC inspection is long overdue, but I don’t think you’ll see one until after Gary retires.

I doubt that the opinion of the Chief Constable has much effect on this decision  to be honest.  There's too many other areas of government that have long avoided formal external inspection: Education, various aspects of Social Services, Health.  At best a carefully selected body or individual from across will be invited over to do some sort of carefully circumscribed assessment, to be carefully edited before it is issued.   Upon which any remaining criticisms are ignored and buried, a few more managers are hired, and the collective self-congratulation continues.

It's a problem across the whole of public service and I can't see it changing without politicians imposing themselves to fix it.  No area of public service will be allowed to break the line.

[manxst 279]

28 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The need for an HMIC inspection is long overdue, but I don’t think you’ll see one until after Gary retires.

I think this is a little unfair, having carried out investigations myself. You play it with a straight bat, compile the facts and then it goes to the Complaints Commissioner to adjudicate on. Police regulations now accept there is a difference between genuine mistakes, and bad/naughty. 

You may well have Derek, but I don’t know if you could say the same for the entirety of your former colleagues. ‘Straight bat’ and ‘police senior managers’ don’t sit particularly well together these days, sadly. It would be only natural to try and diminish any poor conduct of a friend/colleague into a ‘learning opportunity’ rather than a potential disciplinary offence if it was investigated by an outside agency/force. Surely you must see the benefit of removing this mistrust and doubt, and having an impartial  investigation aspect into any complaints, as all UK forces do?  

[Whatnonsence 264]

33 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The need for an HMIC inspection is long overdue, but I don’t think you’ll see one until after Gary retires.

I think this is a little unfair, having carried out investigations myself. You play it with a straight bat, compile the facts and then it goes to the Complaints Commissioner to adjudicate on. Police regulations now accept there is a difference between genuine mistakes, and bad/naughty. 

Yet a Tynwald Committee investigated the system of investigation and oversight into police complaints  and found that it was not fit for purpose back in 2006. Tynwald recommendations were never implemented especially oversight by a TRULY independent body.

 

[Boo Gay'n 537]

1 hour ago, Whatnonsence said:

Yet a Tynwald Committee investigated the system of investigation and oversight into police complaints  and found that it was not fit for purpose back in 2006. Tynwald recommendations were never implemented especially oversight by a TRULY independent body.

 

This is the situation with all of our main public services though, isn't it?  Think education, health, social care etc, not just the police.  The services resist external inspection because they know that they are not very good, and the politicians resist external inspection because they know that the services are not very good.  Loser - the long-suffering Manx public.

[Derek Flint 3,909]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I doubt that the opinion of the Chief Constable has much effect on this decision  to be honest.  There's too many other areas of government that have long avoided formal external inspection: Education, various aspects of Social Services, Health.  At best a carefully selected body or individual from across will be invited over to do some sort of carefully circumscribed assessment, to be carefully edited before it is issued.   Upon which any remaining criticisms are ignored and buried, a few more managers are hired, and the collective self-congratulation continues.

It's a problem across the whole of public service and I can't see it changing without politicians imposing themselves to fix it.  No area of public service will be allowed to break the line.

Trust me, if Gary said “I want an inspection”, then there would be one.

6 hours ago, manxst said:

You may well have Derek, but I don’t know if you could say the same for the entirety of your former colleagues. ‘Straight bat’ and ‘police senior managers’ don’t sit particularly well together these days, sadly. It would be only natural to try and diminish any poor conduct of a friend/colleague into a ‘learning opportunity’ rather than a potential disciplinary offence if it was investigated by an outside agency/force. Surely you must see the benefit of removing this mistrust and doubt, and having an impartial  investigation aspect into any complaints, as all UK forces do?  

Fair point. I was once heavily censured for attempting to apply a degree of perspective and compassion on an investigation into a colleague who was clearly mentally unwell. It was grossly uncomfortable.

4 hours ago, Boo Gay'n said:

This is the situation with all of our main public services though, isn't it?  Think education, health, social care etc, not just the police.  The services resist external inspection because they know that they are not very good, and the politicians resist external inspection because they know that the services are not very good.  Loser - the long-suffering Manx public.

I think ‘not very good’ is perhaps a bit unfair until there is the introduction of a medium of comparison. Some aspects of policing stack up very well, but we don’t know if we are actually doing them well. 

Edited October 17 by Derek Flint

[LightBulb 275]

7 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

The need for an HMIC inspection is long overdue, but I don’t think you’ll see one until after Gary retires.

I think this is a little unfair, having carried out investigations myself. You play it with a straight bat, compile the facts and then it goes to the Complaints Commissioner to adjudicate on. Police regulations now accept there is a difference between genuine mistakes, and bad/naughty. 

Slightly off topic Derek, but what is your opinion on Speed Cameras, do they really save lives, or do the just bring in a revenue source ?

[Roger Mexico 8,755]

59 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Trust me, if Gary said “I want an inspection”, then there would be one.

Maybe, but you can imagine the tutting from the other CEOs and suggestions that perhaps a less formal sort of examination might be more suitable for the 'Manx situation'.  And a clear implication that if anything went wrong the usual Manx systems of burying bad news wouldn't apply.