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Cannabis - Time for a re-think?


Neil Down
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3 hours ago, Apple said:

Medicinal cannabis for patients, no problem with.

Grow your owners who just want to get high without (they think) impacting on anyone else come across as selfish people who are willing to break the law for their own indulgence. Been there, done that. Grew up.

The trouble with medical-only cannabis is that it ends up putting more pressure on the healthy service (which is why GPs are wary).  As Teapot says, you're best being honest.

And if you think about it, most things that most people do is for their own indulgence, including posting on Manx Forums.  Whether it afects other people or not depends more on how they do it rather than what they do.  The 'grow your own' types clearly don't want to break the law, they want to law to change so that they can pursue their hobby.

Whether it will ever become that big a thing is another matter.  Any more than the ability to legally home brew beer (which only dates from 1963 in the UK) meant that the pubs emptied.  No doubt there would be a Cannabis Tent at the Agricultural Shows full with people having nerdy conversations, but most people will prefer a finished product for immediate consumption.

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15 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The 'grow your own' types clearly don't want to break the law, they want to law to change so that they can pursue their hobby.

Whether it will ever become that big a thing is another matter.  Any more than the ability to legally home brew beer (which only dates from 1963 in the UK) meant that the pubs emptied.  No doubt there would be a Cannabis Tent at the Agricultural Shows full with people having nerdy conversations, but most people will prefer a finished product for immediate consumption.

That's the thing, it's not calling for the ability to grow whole warehouses of the stuff and making it some massive thing, blowing smoke in peoples faces, its about being able to grow a small amount for you to smoke at home. It's the bloody government talking about growing it on a large scale to sell for export while still criminalising teenagers. They're fucking insane.

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2 hours ago, Barlow said:

Could I respectfully say, that maybe it's half the books/songs/poems/paintings you like. I would suggest overall it is less than 10%? 5%?

There is another problem here. Lots of young people not unreasonably want to be rockstars, celebs etc. What do the stars do? (apart from having a talent, bags of charisma, lots of luck etc).

They party hard and take drugs.

I have known a few wannabes who can strum a few chords and have a reasonable school choir singing voice. So they go for the Rock 'n' Roll option in life. The easiest part about being a rock star is the taking of drugs and partying bit. So the kids end up doing that until they become a sad pastiche of what they really wanted to be. And yeah, this is where the occasional joint is a gateway. Cocaine is the big boy about town these days and you can (at least in your own head) be the best dancer in Douglas with just a snort in the bogs. The rest is history playing out in front of us. Including the heroin.

I  have seen that happen to its ultimate conclusion on a number of occasions.


 

 

Then I would respectfully suggest that you change your friend group. Yours sound like shit.

Why are you saying it's stuff I like? This isn't a personal argument to me. I'm just saying that a huge amount of creatively is activated by drug use.  Where would the world be without Jean Paul Sartre - King of opium.  I’m not saying its good or bad.  I'm not giving any kind of opinion, I'm just saying it happens more than you know and certainly far more than 10%.

You've seen a polarised version of drugs and you've made it your personal narrative but it's subjective - you've made it subjective because of your experience.  All I’m suggesting is that you accept that there's a different world out there where others have experiences far more positive than those experienced by you.

Edited by Roxanne
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4 hours ago, wrighty said:

I don't have stats at all - I was guessing, and said he was gauging public opinion.  I agree with you - most people are fairly apathetic about cannabis, I'm one of them.  If people want to smoke it, fine by me, as long as it doesn't impact me, my family and society in general.  But I don't care enough about it to campaign one way or the other.  As for medicinal uses - I'd prefer it was properly regulated rather than users having to grow their own, but I'm sceptical about its stated benefits, and the cynic in me would say that many who claim to want it legalised for medical reasons just want to get high.  Which is fine, but be honest.

I've never smoked or eaten cannabis but I am against the way it criminalises people. As you say, as long as nobody is getting hurt then crack on

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When Moses was talking to god next to a burning bush; I wonder what that was? 

It's more ingrained in our history than a lot of people realise. 

There's been a lot of research recently to suggest that the ingestion of hallucinogenics could have been instrumental to the cognitive leap that humans made to evolve from instinctual animals. 

I mean dolphins get high on puffer fish! 

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Aztecs- (sacred) mushrooms, cannabis. 

Pharaohs- hashish (cannabis) opium, cocaine, blue Lotus

Greeks and Romans- as above and 'Mad Honey', henbane, ergot and a species of Sea Bream which induced hallucinations! Belladonna.

And the rest...

https://www.historyextra.com/period/ancient-history/ancient-drug-use-history-how-what-for-opium-hemp/

Humans have pursued and cultivated substances to alter their reality and incorporate them into early religious ceremonies, for thousands and thousands of years.

Still at it... 

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2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The trouble with medical-only cannabis is that it ends up putting more pressure on the healthy service (which is why GPs are wary).

No it doesn't. It just becomes a POM like everything else. Pain relief and muscle relaxant. Fine to me. I would take it for those conditions, no problem.

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The 'grow your own' types clearly don't want to break the law, they want to law to change so that they can pursue their hobby.

There are several laws that I am sure several people (including me) that would like to change or introduce. This just happens to be a "hobby" that can have potential risks for everyone else. 

Remember- what does Mr Hooper want by introducing this debate. - Duh ?

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16 minutes ago, quilp said:

Eh? What "problems" are they then?

And who is "everyone else?"

More 'Reefer Madness."

Well that's the sort of argument you are going to have to put to the majority, via their Tynwald representatives. in order to get the law changed from the status quo.

Let's see what happens next election. Now is the time to start lobbying.

Good luck.

 

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1 hour ago, Barlow said:

Well that's the sort of argument you are going to have to put to the majority, via their Tynwald representatives. in order to get the law changed from the status quo.

Let's see what happens next election. Now is the time to start lobbying.

Good luck.

 

thankfully my MHK is behind it all the way. Another 20 MHK's and we're there.

All we need is either a clean sweep and get rid of the other dinosaurs and get some forward thinking individuals in

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2 hours ago, quilp said:

Eh? What "problems" are they then?

And who is "everyone else?"

More 'Reefer Madness."

These questions have already been answered in the previous posts. There is little point in reiterating them. Not going to happen here. I am all for medicinal purpose for eg muscle relaxations and pain relief. 

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3 hours ago, Neil Down said:

thankfully my MHK is behind it all the way. Another 20 MHK's and we're there.

All we need is either a clean sweep and get rid of the other dinosaurs and get some forward thinking individuals in

20 is ample. You'll only need another 16 and it will be as good as done and dusted and will sail through Tynwald.

(Come election time how many hopeful candidates are going to tell their constituents that they are all for legalising cannabis?)

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On 12/4/2020 at 9:47 AM, wrighty said:

Not sure it helps to reduce everything to "X doesn't agree with my position therefore he's an idiot".  There are as many, if not more, people against legalisation of cannabis as for it.  As a politician he's going to be gauging public opinion and treading a fine line between upsetting the pro camp on the one side with the antis on the other.

 

Hang on a sec, by what right have the NO people got to impose tbeir wishes on the YES people? Surely this is even less important than the abortion debate ffs, a set of people who WON'T imposing their wishes on those that WILL even though every adult should be able to do whatever the fuck they like with their bodies (cannabis)...admittedly when it comes to abortion this is a lot more sensitive as there is a human life involved that doesn't get to choose.

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16 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Hang on a sec, by what right have the NO people got to impose tbeir wishes on the YES people? Surely this is even less important than the abortion debate ffs, a set of people who WON'T imposing their wishes on those that WILL even though every adult should be able to do whatever the fuck they like with their bodies (cannabis)...admittedly when it comes to abortion this is a lot more sensitive as there is a human life involved that doesn't get to choose.

You have to remember that we appear to be living in a society where minority rules...

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