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Eastern area plan suddenly withdrawn


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With our border restrictions looking to remain in place for some time, the construction industry is going to be a major factor in keeping people in employment, skilled and unskilled, it's still largely labour intensive. We're also largely self-sufficient in building aggregates which has further knock ons to employment and is one less commodity that we've got to import. Importation of the other necessary materials is unrestricted under current border conditions.

It's therefore got the potential to be a pretty much a self-contained industry that must be keeping a good couple of thousand plus people in employment. As to who is buying all this new property is another question.

It's difficult to see locals emerging from lockdown into our bubble society raising the sorts of mortgages required, plus the local unemployment situation is yet to be fully realised although lenders may be more sympathetic towards new build than older property. Which may duly cause problems in the older property market. But that's just collateral, politically speaking.

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I believe that this is the revised version but there have been objections from the public and as far as I can see, there has been insufficient time for anyone to review it? People are trying to get th

I agree, the plan should be based on accurate information and data. I did hear that if it were delayed until after the New Year, the plan would be void and need to be re-submitted in its entirety? The

I agree, but I believe that we should be tackling the brownfield sites first before expanding Douglas. Who would want to live here when the capital is a bombsite?

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15 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

With our border restrictions looking to remain in place for some time, the construction industry is going to be a major factor in keeping people in employment, skilled and unskilled, it's still largely labour intensive. We're also largely self-sufficient in building aggregates which has further knock ons to employment and is one less commodity that we've got to import. Importation of the other necessary materials is unrestricted under current border conditions.

It's therefore got the potential to be a pretty much a self-contained industry that must be keeping a good couple of thousand plus people in employment. As to who is buying all this new property is another question.

It's difficult to see locals emerging from lockdown into our bubble society raising the sorts of mortgages required, plus the local unemployment situation is yet to be fully realised although lenders may be more sympathetic towards new build than older property. Which may duly cause problems in the older property market. But that's just collateral, politically speaking.

It's mainly the lender's that are buying them is it not?

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Chris Thomas decided in May that post-inquiry plan (modified to reduce green field allocations upon independent Inspector recommendation) would go to October Tynwald while P+R Minister and is then among its biggest critics in debate this week.

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49 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I believe that this is the revised version but there have been objections from the public and as far as I can see, there has been insufficient time for anyone to review it? People are trying to get the plan delayed until after the 2021 census but I believe that unless this plan is put through Tynwald before this year end, it will have to be completely revisited from scratch? This may not be such a bad thing inview of the apparent neglect of brown field sites and Paul Craine's recent analysis of the shrinking school rolls. I'm all for a vibrant island which is self sustainable but the plan seems to be all about keeping the building industry in work and ignoring the true needs of the current and future population as regards employment, education and healthcare.   

Well im not sure keeping the building industry working is such a bad thing? What do you suggest? They just all cease to work for 10 years until a few NIMBYs die off?

It looked to me like there were some blatant areas in the plan that should not be developed.  The report done independently seemed to agree and recommended a number be removed as potential zoned development sites.

The biggest challenge in my view is within Central Douglas.  How to rebuild it to a modern standard and get rid of the dross town houses that have long since seen better days.

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946 houses for immediate allocation. 440 green field at edge of settlement being Vicarage Rd (100) ballanard woods (40) and 300 wrapped round braddan cemetery. The other 500 in town. See table 19 for immediate allocations on p. 112.

https://www.gov.im/media/1370409/adopted-written-statement-final-21st-september-2020.pdf

Most of the debate against was middle aged middle class nimbyism dressed up as environmental concern.

If it doesnt pass its a developers unstructured free for all based on local plans which are 20+ years old 

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51 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Well im not sure keeping the building industry working is such a bad thing? What do you suggest? They just all cease to work for 10 years until a few NIMBYs die off?

 

I agree, but I believe that we should be tackling the brownfield sites first before expanding Douglas. Who would want to live here when the capital is a bombsite?

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Personally, I hope they build and build until our young Manx folk can find affordable properties. ATM lots, including one of mine is paying about 50% of their salary into private rentals, but can’t get on the property ladder as they don’t qualify for a mortgage, the repayments on which would be less than the rent they are paying. Crazy situation. Just build em.

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18 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I agree, but I believe that we should be tackling the brownfield sites first before expanding Douglas. Who would want to live here when the capital is a bombsite?

Plenty of people want to live here.  They hardly give a fuck about Douglas either.  People looking to move here are quite happy to look anywhere on the island.  Each area has it's attractions to people and the mentality of people coming here is that twenty minutes to half hour in a car is no big deal.

What brown field sites would you prioritise?

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Im sure Bill Shimmins (Glen Vine Park) and various others who spoke against .will as a matter of principle be moving to Douglas town centre because of their environmental concerns...dont all come at ince because you'll block the qb.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Personally, I hope they build and build until our young Manx folk can find affordable properties. ATM lots, including one of mine is paying about 50% of their salary into private rentals, but can’t get on the property ladder as they don’t qualify for a mortgage, the repayments on which would be less than the rent they are paying. Crazy situation. Just build em.

And if build em they'll get bought up by buy-to-let landlords who will keep the rents high and rather let them lie empty (as an investment) then let them at a lower price.  The line about insanity being  keeping on doing the same thing and expecting a different result applies here.  Developers have built more and more and the prices have kept on rising.  But you're right about house prices, I saw this today:

Image

I suspect if you wen't back to 1980 or 1970 it would be even more dramatic.

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1 hour ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Plenty of people want to live here.  They hardly give a fuck about Douglas either.  People looking to move here are quite happy to look anywhere on the island.  Each area has it's attractions to people and the mentality of people coming here is that twenty minutes to half hour in a car is no big deal.

What brown field sites would you prioritise?

Douglas is the main shopping, work and administrative centre where most entertainment is, or was! If it isn't vibrant, interesting and clean, island life can be a big drag for quite a lot of people. 

I'd prioritise the obvious sites in Lord Street, the Promenade, Market Street, Wellington Square/Chester Street, South Quay, Lake Road, Westmoreland Road, Westbourne Drive, Woodbourne Road, Victoria Road. That's not to mention some of the rundown areas of the town.   

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There is no doubt that we are trying to build our way out of the doldrums. But in 20years time, unless there has been a huge change in the way people choose to live, there will still only be around 80’000 people here. In some respects a good thing, as long as you have a government who accepts that is effectively a ‘big village’ and cuts its cloth, and ambitions accordingly if it wants to maintain low taxes.

It wouldn’t be so bad if these building schemes were made up of beautifully laid out estates, with zero carbon houses which were designed in such a way as to allow for easy modular extension by growing young families. We know that all we are going to get is the same, formulaic set up which Hartford and Dandara have messed us with over the last 30 years. 

That is the really sad part. Yet again, we could be so much more, so much groundbreaking work,  yet we choose mediocrity.

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12 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

How would he exactly?  He had about 6 weeks at best then there was a three month recess.

https://www.tynwald.org.im/education/about/Pages/Motions.aspx 

Just so you know how it is done.

You are very discourteous to officers and Mr Harmer

I don't think officers get 3 months of recess, to potter in the garden

I would also think Mr Harmer is a hands on person.

So just like treasury, you would think they would have drafted lots of motions

I just wondered how many motions he had done as policy and reform minister and how many had failed.

Minister Harmer said:

'The Policy and Reform portfolio is broad and varied. This administration has a great deal it still wishes to deliver, and for me this will include work on gas regulation, helping people out of poverty and negotiations with the BBC. We also need to move forward to deliver our challenging legislation programme.

I would have thought the Eastern Area Plan would be one of the easier motions to deliver.

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