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Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover


Manx Bean
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9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

My simple analysis is that the three test would have made much difference. It was testing all the household and separate isolation that would have helped avoid lockdown 2 and locking down a week earlier would have reduced lockdown 3.

Remember John. Alf was saying it was costing too much to do testing. £400K was quoted somewhere.

WHO said TEST, TEST, TEST

IOM Gov said TOO EXPENSIVE

Manx solutions to Manx problems?

Edited by Boris Johnson
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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's more about advice and knowledge I think.  It's fairly clear that the January outbreak could have been prevented with a more rigorous and extensive use of testing, something that Rachel and many others had been advocating for long before. 

It's possible that the same thing would have applied to the February outbreak as well - certainly you would have expected regular testing of Steam Packet staff anyway and certainly after a UK-based crew member tested positive.  But even if the outbreak had started it could have been halted with much speedier action[1] and genomics would have been essential in making sure that that was effective and enabling lockdown to be lifted much faster.

 

[1]  New Zealand had an outbreak at almost exactly the same time.  Auckland was locked down at 6 am the day after the first positive result.  We waited a fortnight until maybe a thousand people were infected.

I absolutely agree with you Roger Mexico. Thank you for another well-reasoned post.

My understanding of Dr Glover’s genomic testing technology is that it would have been a massive help in assisting the DHSC (the IOMG) to both identify and link cases. Testing of any kind has been beneficial, but Dr Glover’s capacity to identify the individual genome of each infection quickly would have been especially useful. As far as I understand it, the Liverpool genome testing service only identifies the strain of Covid that the infected person has, but does not attempt to link individual cases. In comparison, Dr Glover’s method provides much more granular and therefore potentially useful information.  

Another, albeit not very glamorous, method for identifying the location of Covid is to do sewage testing (this has been mentioned on MF previously). The antipodeans have been doing this type of scientific testing for a while. For example, a couple of days ago in Australia (Greater Melbourne to be precise) they discovered traces of Covid in sewage. This enabled their health authorities to issue an alert, and to ask people in defined locations to come forward for testing, regardless of whether they had symptoms or not. As a result of this approach, the Australian lockdowns have been highly targeted and focused. This sort of ‘location testing’ could be used next time we have an outbreak to perform more specific track and trace/ lockdowns.

One of my big complaints about our government’s approach is that because they only use limited scientific inputs in their fight against Covid, even though they describe each lockdown as being ‘short’ and ‘sharp’, in reality they are neither. Because of their lack of scientific tools, the IOMG are forced to use crude/ blunt/ blanket lockdowns, sometimes lasting many weeks across the whole community, to bring each outbreak under control.

IMHO, going forward, the policy of 'on again/ off again' whole community lockdowns will become socially and economically unsustainable.

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45 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

Like all that free publicity on the island is going to drum up loads of new business for her company.

New business from exactly and doing what? 

Would you say the same if NASA got a load of coverage on the island?

We all need space rockets as much as we need genomics..............

Yes we’ve tried this already with pushing the island as a centre for Space activities. All that publicity and....we never quite made the final frontier did we.

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But never forget that senior government ministers and the Island's media, knowingly and willingly were happy to maintain that fantasy and sell it to the taxpayers of the Island. Another Allan Bell - Eddie Teare production if I remember. Utter contempt for Tynwald and the taxpayers.   

Edited by Shake me up Judy
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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

My simple analysis is that the three test wouldn’t have made much difference. It was testing all the household and separate isolation that would have helped avoid lockdown 2 and locking down a week earlier would have reduced lockdown 3.

What was the cause of the 2nd lockdown? I thought it was to do with 2 travellers to the IoM potentially passing covid between them in between the day 1 and day 13 Tests, which wouldn't have been able to go unnoticed if they'd have had day 8 tests. However I could well be wrong!

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It's time the Chief Minister and President of Tynwald stepped into this mess with the DHSC and Dr Glover or this thing will drag on for months, with an election only months away. That's supposedly their role, their job, and what they're paid for. Howard can't sidestep this now. The DHSC clearly want to drag it out with the lawyers. It shows contempt for Tynwald and democracy. What powers does the PAC have to order a department to appear before the committee within a certain time limit, and before the election in September ? It needs resolving.  

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52 minutes ago, Manx Yeller said:

What was the cause of the 2nd lockdown? I thought it was to do with 2 travellers to the IoM potentially passing covid between them in between the day 1 and day 13 Tests, which wouldn't have been able to go unnoticed if they'd have had day 8 tests. However I could well be wrong!

Nobody really knows because the DHSC are so scanty with information, but testing of isolating arrivals to the Island was only introduced just before Christmas and the two people who were supposed to have brought the virus in didn't take any tests at all because they arrived before the required date.

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15 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

It's time the Chief Minister and President of Tynwald stepped into this mess with the DHSC and Dr Glover or this thing will drag on for months, with an election only months away. That's supposedly their role, their job, and what they're paid for. Howard can't sidestep this now. The DHSC clearly want to drag it out with the lawyers. It shows contempt for Tynwald and democracy. What powers does the PAC have to order a department to appear before the committee within a certain time limit, and before the election in September ? It needs resolving.  

Couldn’t agree more but it’s unlikely to happen. HRH The Chief Minister has made it his mission to be obstructive and nasty towards people. Many argue he has a thing against women and doesn’t like to be proved wrong. It’s a battle between a private individual and the Manx Establishment. No matter how much goodwill or work and services provided to the state, in some cases gratis or below cost, you will find the state will still won’t be happy and will find fault. As with most things, HMWIs coming to relocate to the island, it will all end in tears and repercussions. I don’t think that the PAC will have any teeth should their conclusions go against HRH The Chief Minister. What democracy? That was gone years ago. However lack of democracy can be accepted if the island was booming and awash with funds, capital projects getting completed on time and budget. 

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5 minutes ago, display name said:

165 pages later and this place is still going on about a petulant,trumped up,conceited egotist?. The less said about the other side the better.

Which one? Ashie or HRH The Chief Minister?

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2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Before ceasing supply, Rachel checked to see if alternatives had been found and was assured they had been.  Several days later she  was contacted begging for more reagents because this actually hadn't been done and they had completely run out.

Even in its own terms this response, consisting almost entirely of weasel words, doesn't make much sense.  How can you "withdraw all potential services"?  Something that is potential by definition doesn't exist yet - how can it be withdrawn.  Similarly if TG decided not "to respond to the required DHSC governance arrangements" then they can't have been in breech of an agreement that didn't exist.

The whole statement is basically the government having a hissy fit that someone didn't do their own job for them.

That’s what I meant by a damning statement, ‘Failing to supply’ suggests there was an agreement in place, you can’t fail to deliver something you’ve not promised. Are they suggesting only a verbal agreement was in place? how on earth would they prove that?

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6 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

That’s what I meant by a damning statement, ‘Failing to supply’ suggests there was an agreement in place, you can’t fail to deliver something you’ve not promised. Are they suggesting only a verbal agreement was in place? how on earth would they prove that?

thats it though, claiming something that isn't written down is not as easy to disprove as presenting paperwork and emails.  and lets face it, government won't accept anything verbally hence the need  for written contracts .  

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1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

That’s what I meant by a damning statement, ‘Failing to supply’ suggests there was an agreement in place, you can’t fail to deliver something you’ve not promised. Are they suggesting only a verbal agreement was in place? how on earth would they prove that?

How would they prove that? Same way they proved they were doing the right thing when they sent the kids back into school at the beginning of March. 

Oh... er....

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1 hour ago, Pipsqueak said:

government won't accept anything verbally hence the need  for written contracts .  

Lessons should have been learned from the "Signature" TT business?

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