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Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover


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15 minutes ago, rachomics said:

...A 24 hour breather to get away from it all while I processed that I'd finally said "I quit" and how that was likely to play out publicly.

Were you envisaging, or hoping for, any positive outcomes from opposing the government on social media? How did you hope to see this playing out, if it were not going to end the way it did?

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With respect, you are. Without @rachomics on island PCR testing for covid would not have happened when it did, if at all. Of course, Rizwan Khan and Steve Doyle were vital too - sorry don’t know Dr Sh

Have you never heard the term whistle-blowing? Dr G. tried every avenue and was well aware of what was at risk on her island. She isn't doing this for publicity, she's been offered far better gigs tha

I quite enjoy Manx Forums. There's nothing wrong with a bit of satire.  Happy to defend myself, wherever that may be. I grew up knocking around Willaston so while you may believe that someone wit

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On 10/29/2020 at 12:56 PM, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Its being relocated to Howard's barn - which will allow him to qualify for the new IOM Government Cow Shit and Covid Testing Lab Countryside Improvement Grant.......

How do I apply?

On 10/29/2020 at 1:06 PM, Andy Onchan said:

Something tells me that insurance compliance might be behind 'employment' issue.

It was. Although my Taxa Genomics insurance covers almost everything a medical research and clinical diagnostics company might need. They were given the option of reactivating me on "the bank" or paying my commercial rates. They heard my commercial rates and chose to reactivate me on "the bank". I didn't mind, I didn't need the money and wanted to help. 

On 10/29/2020 at 1:24 PM, Declan said:

The govt's attitude seems to be - "If it's up and running, everyone trained, then there's no need to listen to her."

Probably true. Give them a couple of weeks until the current reagents run out and then we'll ask this again if the legal agreements aren't in place. That'll be an interesting conversation. 

On 10/29/2020 at 1:57 PM, Rhumsaa said:

I see it as the politicians being unable to deviate from speaking in absolutes and always wanting to be right

In the scheme of things it's such a nothing point whether she's directly employed or contract or bank staff or whatever - bottom line is she was working with the health dept and being paid by IOM Gov so that's a dead easy general press conference answer - the contractual nuances are only important if you're wanting to be pricks about it all

They are being pricks about it all. I'm calling them out. 

On 10/29/2020 at 2:25 PM, BallaDoc said:

The amazing thing for me is how Covid is pushing people into the limelight who nobody had ever heard of before.  I mean, be honest, who had heard of Dr Rachel Glover before this?  Or UK Government Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance, who is now a regular performer on the box alongside Boris Johnson?  It's like watching the tide go out and in the rock pools you find all sorts of weird blobby things with tentacles that you never even knew were things.

SO MANY TIMES THIS. No-one gave a damn about molecular diagnostics 8 months ago. We were a tiny, inconsequential field that dealt in identifying pathogens with DNA. Now everyone is an expert. Facebook approved. 

On 10/29/2020 at 2:47 PM, ian rush said:

Scientists advise, politicians decide.

This is absolutely correct and something I support wholeheartedly. It's just that here they're not used to scientists advising. 

On 10/29/2020 at 3:29 PM, monasqueen said:

It's probably all down to how you define an "employee". I suspect she was not "on the books" and being paid a salary with ITIP and NIC deductions, which would make it correct that she was not an "employee".

A lot of people work for entities as "self employed", such Manx Radio presenters. Some of these people might say (for instance - not saying they do in reality) that they "work for the Radio station", or wherever, and they may even say that they are "employed", when it is their company that is employed (contracted).

Just surmising that Rachel's company may have been contracted to the DHSC, but that she was not, as an individual, subject to DHSC employment rules, terms and conditions.

What's in a word?

I got paid as an employee, with a payslip, ITIP and NIC deductions. I figured that made me an employee, even if I was on "the bank". David Ashford made it clear by email that I was not a "real" employee because of this and would, therefore, never be listened to. So I resigned. 

22 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Why couldn’t she have made a phone call or email instead of going on Twitter ?

Oh, I tried, so many times. It took me three weeks to get an appointment with David Ashford about a rather important issue. That told me where I placed in the big scheme of things. 

13 hours ago, Barlow said:

Dignity gone.

Mine or David Ashfords? I'm not so much worried about mine. 

5 hours ago, slinkydevil said:

I wonder who in the government media team wrote the:

"letter I've just recieved today actually from a member of the testing team."  David Ashford - press briefing.

:D

If they received the letter it's someone who knew I resigned on Tuesday night or found out on Wednesday morning. The rest of you found out Thursday lunchtime. 

3 hours ago, jaymann said:

You have to love the Dr. She's got some cahoneys.

 

glover1.PNG

My balls are not brass. They're titanium plated steel. The typical variety for a woman employed in science. 

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

If Ashford had received a letter from a staff member, which was in support of the contribution made by Dr. Glover, would he have read it out?

To read out a single letter is presenting a view that is statistically irrelevant.

I will take a wild guess and say that Dr. Glover knows a bit more about statistics than Ashford.

 

I do. He's an ex-project manager. 

46 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

So lots of members of staff have been sending emails of support to Dr Glover. Hmmmm. Maybe it will get to the point where only one person has not sent a message of support. That's going to narrow things down a bit.

It definitely will. But to be honest, the**actual** lab staff are so lovely. The person who wrote the letter can't be that close to the team who do the testing day-to-day. 

37 minutes ago, Gladys said:

So, Rachel gave a presentation that the CM thinks was well received?  

It was. I think we had damn near all MHKS and MLCs. Howard hid behind a pillar and didn't even say "hi". I wonder why. 

35 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Are civil servants allowed to send personal emails?

They sure are. 

Edited by rachomics
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9 minutes ago, loaf said:

Were you envisaging, or hoping for, any positive outcomes from opposing the government on social media? How did you hope to see this playing out, if it were not going to end the way it did?

I expected it would end up with me being discredited in some way. I resigned when I did in the hope that it wouldn't drag out to that point. Clearly I was wrong. 

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Today's press conference felt like they've really started losing whatever charm they had. It's becoming more and more clear they don't have a plan, and I swear Howie is looking more smarmy. He looked so miffed when Moulton asked him about him coughing and spluttering the other day and his default face seems to be moving closer to that.

It's clear they don't have any plan bar wait for it to be fixed everywhere else, and they seem to be treating testing as a binary thing, you either test on day 0 or don't test at all. Ashford isn't looking much better, both quite rambly and skirting questions more than usual.

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5 minutes ago, rachomics said:

I expected it would end up with me being discredited in some way. I resigned when I did in the hope that it wouldn't drag out to that point. Clearly I was wrong. 

I tend to find the 'Nobody is indispensable' reaction is the one that typically occurs under these circumstances.

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2 minutes ago, loaf said:

'Nobody is indispensable'

Most professions, whether they are brick-layers or engineers or micro-biologists, require qualifications (and they all have skills that I do not).

It takes time and ability to acquire these skills; the more complex the subject, the more time and ability.

There is maybe only one profession that requires no skill or ability (apart from the age-old profession), and that is being a politician.

The attitude of the politicians in regard to this topic annoys the hell out of me. Yes, no-one is indispensable, but to replace someone like Dr. Glover is extremely difficult and time-consuming - you cannot go down the the labour exchange and get another one.

On the other hand what skills do local politicians have? None - zero - completely bugger all. Anyone can do it. Anyone can stand for election. No qualifications required.

In this shambles, the very people who are dispensable are the politicians.

So, let's say, the manure has truly hit the fan - the covid crisis has escalated. The only way out is continuous unlimited testing. Who is most important for the IoM - a qualified micro-biologist or a politician?

 

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49 minutes ago, Barlow said:

The Cabinet Office has all those 'spin doctors' (ie former hacks and hackettes). Surely they have been involved with this - what else would they be for?

 That extra day to get it it all off pat, too.

This is what is so extraordinary.  Except it now appears they had since Wednesday morning to get the response correct and they still managed to come up with something that made a staged denunciation at a Stalinist show trial sound convincing and reasonable in comparison.  It's incompetence taken to the highest level.  Blaming the media for reporting stuff was never going to go down well either.

I can't help wondering if Quayle is behind this - if only because not even the hapless 'communications professionals' that he surrounds himself with can be that useless.  The sort of petty spite with which the whole thing was carried out and the way he got someone else to do his dirty work (he got someone else to sack Beecroft remember) do seem rather his style.  But then that sort of thing is very characteristic of how many in the civil service operate - that's why Quayle was their chosen man.

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1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

This is what is so extraordinary.  Except it now appears they had since Wednesday morning to get the response correct and they still managed to come up with something that made a staged denunciation at a Stalinist show trial sound convincing and reasonable in comparison.  It's incompetence taken to the highest level.  Blaming the media for reporting stuff was never going to go down well either.

Amazing analogy

Couldn't agree with this summary more

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