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Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover


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19 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I can't decide whether she is very brave or very naive. 

Neither,  she is honest, which in this day and age is to be applauded and if only Dr RG had some colleagues who had the balls to stand up to the CM we may well be a bit more transparent and have a clear forward plan which we are lacking.

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Just now, Beelzebub3 said:

Neither,  she is honest, which in this day and age is to be applauded and if only Dr RG had some colleagues who had the balls to stand up to the CM we may well be a bit more transparent and have a clear forward plan which we are lacking.

That'll be brave then?

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1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

That'll be brave then?

Why would you be brave to offer your opinion as an expert to a uneducated farmer who just happens to be CM? Just remember come next year he could be back shovelling cowshit out of a barn, I very much doubt the same could be said for the good DR.

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She seems to have a lot of very good and relevant knowledge and experience but I agree with an earlier poster, this isn't going to end well now it is in the public domain.

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7 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

Neither,  she is honest, which in this day and age is to be applauded and if only Dr RG had some colleagues who had the balls to stand up to the CM we may well be a bit more transparent and have a clear forward plan which we are lacking.

How many Consultants do we have in Nobles, along with senior managers and nurses ? They are all publicly very quiet.

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14 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

Why would you be brave to offer your opinion as an expert to a uneducated farmer who just happens to be CM? Just remember come next year he could be back shovelling cowshit out of a barn, I very much doubt the same could be said for the good DR.

Howard won't be shovelling shit in those two-tone leather brogues.

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26 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

Neither,  she is honest, which in this day and age is to be applauded and if only Dr RG had some colleagues who had the balls to stand up to the CM we may well be a bit more transparent and have a clear forward plan which we are lacking.

But, as I'm sure she'd be the first to point out, she has the advantage that she has her own business which doesn't rely on government contracts or indeed on-Island business.  She's only a temporary employee of the Manx NHS who is there because she offered to help.  Most of her NHS colleagues don't have that advantage and will have to be careful for fear of damaging their careers and livelihoods.  And of course that's even truer in the Isle of Man because it's not like you can get a job at a neighbouring Trust if you fall out with people.  It's clear that this is about the government not consulting with any of the medical/technical people.

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52 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I can't decide whether she is very brave or very naive. 

Does it matter? Perhaps the most important thing is that she is challenging the status quo - and not many do - not publicly and under their own name anyway.

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I'm not likening HQ to Trump as that would be a step too far but here we have a microcosm of a situation not so far removed where the leader of a country surrounds himself with those who share the same opinion and anyone who may be able to contribute with an alternative point of view is ignored and ostracised. She's not the only one this has happened to is she?

Isn't the object of any major decision that affects the population best achieved after consultation with as many experts as possible?

(not including all the ones on here of course - that really would be a step too far)

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Didn't the CM say of course they would consult with external advisers if they agreed with their internal advisers?

Rachel is internal, surely,  if she is a DHSC employee? 

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8 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I'm not likening HQ to Trump as that would be a step too far but here we have a microcosm of a situation not so far removed where the leader of a country surrounds himself with those who share the same opinion and anyone who may be able to contribute with an alternative point of view is ignored and ostracised. She's not the only one this has happened to is she?

Isn't the object of any major decision that affects the population best achieved after consultation with as many experts as possible?

(not including all the ones on here of course - that really would be a step too far)

Who else has been ostracised?

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Back in the day when I had a proper job with some responsibility, quite often I’d have to run something fast moving, with limited information and take some tough calls. The job would normally calm down after an hour or two, and you could consult on a much wider range of advice and information to base your decisions from that point on. If there was ever an inquiry it would save the embarrassment of the “how widely did you consult?” And “ this person was offering expert advice, why did you exclude them?” 

Having an independent expert on hand to give a sterile opinion, outside of the bubble is a bit of a gift, especially in long game stuff. Until you know what they are saying, it is difficult to evaluate the worth of their information. I suspect Rachel has a naysayer in public health who is keeping her from the door. 

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