Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Kopek 2,131]

Should we all be paid less by those rules?

[Andy Onchan 4,293]

9 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Should we all be paid less by those rules?

Most of us can only dream of those sort of salaries. Posts in the CS carry very little risk in relation to job security. Unlike the privates sector. 

[Roger Mexico 9,753]

25 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Should we all be paid less by those rules?

No because, say a pensions clerk in the Isle of Man will be doing roughly the same job as one in the UK.  But the Head of Pensions in Island will in charge of administering pensions for 15,000 people and maybe a dozen staff, while the equivalent in the UK will be responsible for 12 million pensions and thousands of staff.

We don't expect the manager of a small local supermarket to be paid anything like the same as the CEO of Tesco, but those at the top of our civil service seem to think they are entitled to almost as much as their UK counterparts. - and possibly more than their equivalents in devolved administrations such as Scotland, despite those countries being so much bigger.

[Scotty 495]

39 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No because, say a pensions clerk in the Isle of Man will be doing roughly the same job as one in the UK.  But the Head of Pensions in Island will in charge of administering pensions for 15,000 people and maybe a dozen staff, while the equivalent in the UK will be responsible for 12 million pensions and thousands of staff.

We don't expect the manager of a small local supermarket to be paid anything like the same as the CEO of Tesco, but those at the top of our civil service seem to think they are entitled to almost as much as their UK counterparts. - and possibly more than their equivalents in devolved administrations such as Scotland, despite those countries being so much bigger.

But CEOs in the UK dealing with massive numbers will have many, many managers below them to take the strain. The job is the same no matter where it is. 
I would rather see a top civil servant earning £100,000 plus per annum than a local charity leader getting that sum.

[Apple 883]

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

I would rather see a top civil servant earning £100,000 plus per annum than a local charity leader getting that sum.

I am going to regret this I know,,,, but who on earth is getting £100,000 for running a charity on the island?

[Non-Believer 12,828]

10 hours ago, Kopek said:

Should we all be paid less by those rules?

I think most of us are 

[Happier diner 550]

13 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

No because, say a pensions clerk in the Isle of Man will be doing roughly the same job as one in the UK.  But the Head of Pensions in Island will in charge of administering pensions for 15,000 people and maybe a dozen staff, while the equivalent in the UK will be responsible for 12 million pensions and thousands of staff.

We don't expect the manager of a small local supermarket to be paid anything like the same as the CEO of Tesco, but those at the top of our civil service seem to think they are entitled to almost as much as their UK counterparts. - and possibly more than their equivalents in devolved administrations such as Scotland, despite those countries being so much bigger.

Its a fair point and its an economy of scale the Isle of Man doesn't have. I can say though that a national department head in the UK Civil Service will earn significantly more than £150k. It doesn't scale directly I agree but if it did a senior CS here would only get about £5k pa which obviously would not work 

[Gladys 7,272]

You can't scale it, it has to be comparable to and compete with similar levels in the UK or you will never be able to recruit. 

[Lxxx 5,826]

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

But CEOs in the UK dealing with massive numbers will have many, many managers below them to take the strain. The job is the same no matter where it is. 
I would rather see a top civil servant earning £100,000 plus per annum than a local charity leader getting that sum.

Total false equivalence. 

I would welcome hearing about the strains of a top civil servant in what is a glorified parish council. 

[Uhtred 10,155]

25 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Total false equivalence. 

I would welcome hearing about the strains of a top civil servant in what is a glorified parish council. 

It’s not though is it? No parish council in the UK runs, for example, an NHS, and has to operate it according to the same clinical and governance standards as the UK.

[Banker 1,379]

27 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Total false equivalence. 

I would welcome hearing about the strains of a top civil servant in what is a glorified parish council. 

Some of the parish clerks like braddan , Ramsey are on £100k and Douglas CEO probably £ 130k

[Roger Mexico 9,753]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Its a fair point and its an economy of scale the Isle of Man doesn't have. I can say though that a national department head in the UK Civil Service will earn significantly more than £150k. It doesn't scale directly I agree but if it did a senior CS here would only get about £5k pa which obviously would not work 

One of the differences with the UK is that you can download the names, salaries (to £5k band) etc for all the public servants earning £150,000 (pro rata if part-time) as at September 2019 from here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/866327/150k-2019-Master1__4_.csv

A lot of the top earners are in the corporatised sector, presumably because they are afraid all those suits at Network Rail would otherwise go off and work for a rival British rail network[1].

Of course comparisons are difficult because the Manx Government is more secretive and what information there is is more scattered.  But the UK Cabinet Secretary (then Mark Sedwell) was on £210,000.  No one would expect his equivalent, Will Greenhow, to be paid pro-rata (that would be about £275 a year), but he's probably on about £145,000.  In comparison his equivalent in Wales is only on around £130,000.  Presumably that will be because Wales is so much smaller than the Isle of Man.

 

[1]  This is what invariably happens when you corporatise something - everyone at the top of the organisation gives each other massive payrises - which also tends to raise the salaries in the rest of the management structure.  Even if the organisation is then de-corporatised or re-nationalised, it's left with inflated salary levels - this is effectively what happened with the  MEA under Proffitt.  It also explains why there are so many people pushing for Manx Government Departments etc to go down the same route: Health, Post Office, Education etc.  You basically get a lot more money for doing the same job.

[Non-Believer 12,828]

53 minutes ago, Banker said:

Some of the parish clerks like braddan , Ramsey are on £100k and Douglas CEO probably £ 130k

And some of them are so "pushed" that they need full-time deputies too....

[TheTeapot 10,362]

It's absolutely mental that the chief exec/clerk of Ramsey commissioners is on more than £100000. Mental. 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits 1,710]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

It's absolutely mental that the chief exec/clerk of Ramsey commissioners is on more than £100000. Mental. 

Is it? If you look at Ramsey Commissioners as a business (which it sort of is), the turnover of that, and the responsibility then it isn’t hugely surprising to see the top person being paid 100k.

Private sector people on more than that in far smaller "businesses".