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I think it’s outrageous only allowing students having names beginning with ‘J’ to come home. It’s disgustingly letterist.

Demonising young people is not big nor clever. In fact it’s incredibly irresponsible.

Should be relatively easy ... having a teenage daughter in the house its like the house is haunted........ every so often you see a presence in the room, you hear some moaning, and then a door sl

Typical Howie policy changes without any thought and usual knee jerk reaction as we got a community case.

Guernsey who are in similar position to us are not enforcing the whole house isolation rules and allow families to visit. Eventually we have to take some risks 

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2 hours ago, John Wright said:

 

All they’re saying is that the policy shouldn’t be changed at short notice. Many of them will have already booked travel. They and families deserve better. It’s typical Manx policy making on the hoof without thinking through consequences 

 During a pandemic, like a war  it may be necessary to make decisions/policy on the hoof  at "short notice".

Presently the children/grandchildren of folk who live outside the IOM are not permitted to visit even if they are prepared to isolate for 14 days.

I understand the IOM gov has offered to assist financially with students self isolating .

We are all motivated by self interest and it is relatively easy to justify our actions/inactions based on our personal circumstances .

Why do the students and their families "deserve better" if that prejudices the health/lives of residents , the majority(?) of whom have not travelled off the island and those who have obeyed the "rules".

 

 

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

That only applies if they were warned in September, no you can’t come home. They were clearly led to believe that they, like any other person travelling off island, would be able to return.

Not only "led to believe" but actually reassured that they would be by Allinson and that everything would be done to get them back[1].  And at the time a lot of us pointed out the various things that would need to be sorted out, but rather than deal with them, they had to wait till people,were infected on the Island in the way that every said would happen and then they panicked.

So we've ended up with the worst of all worlds.  We've got a short period where students (and others) can return to the Island at a time when the UK is probably at peak infection rate without having to co-isolate; we've got a refusal to test such people at any stage in their 'isolation', despite having the means to do so; we're then trying to force them all to return together and offering no support to those who might be best staying in the UK that I can see.

One of the most revealing things that @rachomics said in her discussion with Moulton was comparing the ways her advice was sought in the UK when she worked for government there with how it was processed on the Island.  There she would be contacted directly and immediately by those who needed the information that she was the best person to supply; here it would be filtered, over a prolonged period, through various levels of management and report writing and committees before reaching those who were supposed to make the decisions (if it even did).  One of these is a major country with a necessarily large bureaucracy.  One isn't.

 

[1]  To be fair to Allinson I suspect things would be even more disorganised if he hadn't been pushing for something.  But we know from earlier that DESC isn't just unfit for purpose, it doesn't even seem to know what its purpose should be.

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2 hours ago, Banker said:

Typical Howie policy changes without any thought and usual knee jerk reaction as we got a community case.

Guernsey who are in similar position to us are not enforcing the whole house isolation rules and allow families to visit. Eventually we have to take some risks 

Well, based on the first outbreak, people living together passed it between themselves about 10% of the time. That's around the figure I've heard.

When you've got your biggest bulk influx of any group of people, you want to manage that risk.

The change happening in the course of a week is what has fucked people over, nothing else. Howie had been hinting at it, but at no point had he given a definitive timeline for it.

Either they've got to get on the plane before Thursday, or people are having to take time off work so said students can isolate. Even with the accommodation subsidy, that's not necessarily viable for everyone, and if you try booking any in the run-up to Christmas, they're all jammed because of self isolation bookings.

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3 hours ago, Roxanne said:

More of the decisive talk then. Can’t you hear yourself? This divisiveness is dangerous.

Have some compassion. They’ve already had a bum deal working their ass off for A levels, getting into university only to find they are confined to their rooms and their learning is all online - and having the privilege of paying 7.5k for it plus accommodation. 

As John says it’s not just them having to make the adjustment, it’s their whole family. They’re not saying they aren’t grateful to be coming home, they’re just saying that it’s extremely short notice.

How would you feel about having to change your entire plans for the next fortnight and stay home - from Thursday.

Don't get caught up in this nonsense. 

Don't forget that the economy is now in such a state that they are not guaranteed to find employment after leaving School, College, University etc.  The combination of a global pandemic and Brexit is going to mean that young people are going to be faced with limited job opportunities, high taxation to repay Government spending, and a housing market where prices continue to increase.  

Throw in the fact that on current trends they will not have any state pension when they retire (watch out for the Government pushing back the retirement date further and further whilst slowly eroding the benefits), the NHS looks like its about to be sold and with it access to medical care that many previous generations have been able to rely on and, of course, the climate crisis.

Who the hell would want to be young now?

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4 hours ago, John Wright said:

That only applies if they were warned in September, no you can’t come home. They were clearly led to believe that they, like any other person travelling off island, would be able to return.

I think the isolation rules changed with the last upsurge in cases and lockdown in the UK John? All returnees and household members must now isolate I believe.

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11 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think the isolation rules changed with the last upsurge in cases and lockdown in the UK John? All returnees and household members must now isolate I believe.

It changed because of the cluster. Unless timing was coincidental. Of course if they did pre entry or arrival and 7 days testing that might have been avoided.

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37 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Me.

My hangovers were never this bad when I was young.

I can't do it anymore. At all. Used to put away a couple of bottles of wine for a laugh and be entirely fine the next day. Now anything over 3/4 of a bottle and tomorrow is a gonner.

 

Also there's a lot of people being particularly shitty for no reason in this thread.

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