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Electric vehicles, has this really been thought through?


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4 hours ago, pongo said:

The UK balance is already often as much as 40% renewables. In total it's between 20% and 30%. That number is increasingly rapidly and that is now where nearly all of the investment is going.

It's a massively successful sector.

Yes but....

This from the Natural History Museum paints a not too rosy picture of the whole EV thing, including increasing renewables...

 https://www.nhm.ac.uk/press-office/press-releases/leading-scientists-set-out-resource-challenge-of-meeting-net-zer.html

It may be a year old and some things will have changed slightly but the main points remain the same.

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As always, a sledgehammer to crack a nut. There are so many ways to make major alterations to air pollution throughout the world but they don't all make even more money for the already rich like the complete alteration of the world's transport method will. The more complicated vehicles or indeed any system is made, the easier it is to cover up and bamboozle the general public, the teet of the rich.

It would be so simple to produce a cheap, simple general purpose vehicle for everyday use as part of pollution control.

If of course we really are all dying from pollution. Always seems strange to me that longevity of humans continues to increase over the centuries, I know there are many reasons but it's not such a bad old world..is it?

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Wonder how we'll view this in 100 years time? Were electrics a blind alley to be laughed at? How will we be generating the electricity if not? Was it a good idea to hollow out Bolivia in the name of lithium and then spread it all over the world in difficult-to-recycle, short life, discarded vehicles and their components? Or will electrics still be the standard?

Personally, I'd miss the whiff of Castrol R....

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On 11/23/2020 at 5:25 PM, Max Power said:

It seems that government is waking up to the fact that EVs can not be towed following breakdowns.

 https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/transport-minister-astonished-hazard-electric-car-motorway-breakdowns/

Imagine the scenario, mid winter 2035 and snow brings the UK to a halt. Thousands of cars stuck on motorways with their heating, radio and lights on. Batteries fade away and the cars grind to a halt. How will they clear the road and rescue all those people?

Scenario 2, having been searching for a charging point, your car runs out of charge on a 'smart motorway' and grinds to a halt. It's not worth thinking of the consequences. 

More and more it seems that hybrid or hydrogen are the only viable options!  

Some electric cars don't have a neutral position in their transmission: their wheels are always connected to their engine; when the wheels turn the motor also turns with the wheels. If that type of car is towed, its engine could be damaged. Particularly in vehicles with a liquid cooling system, turning the engine without the cooling system in action can overheat the engine and damage it irreparably.

However, there is nothing to stop car makers engineering a car with a neutral position in their transmission. Nor it is expensive. In general, an electric car is much more reliable than a petrol car, for having far fewer moving parts.

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On 11/24/2020 at 8:43 AM, BallaDoc said:

Hydrogen as I see it is is a non starter.  There are no naturally occurring hydrogen mines anywhere on the planet.  Hydrogen needs to be manufactured either from natural gas (a fossil fuel) or by electrolysis of water (massively energy intensive and wasteful).  

I am sorry the economics of that will change. There are new technologies coming. Heavy vehicles will all be powered by hydrogen.

Whether normal cars will stay with batteries or go with hydrogen, it depends on how much energy storage in batteries can be improved.

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5 hours ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Some electric cars don't have a neutral position in their transmission: their wheels are always connected to their engine; when the wheels turn the motor also turns with the wheels. If that type of car is towed, its engine could be damaged. Particularly in vehicles with a liquid cooling system, turning the engine without the cooling system in action can overheat the engine and damage it irreparably.

However, there is nothing to stop car makers engineering a car with a neutral position in their transmission. Nor it is expensive. In general, an electric car is much more reliable than a petrol car, for having far fewer moving parts.

I would be more surprised than not if many electric cars had a physical neutral. It adds complexity and cost for little gain.

An electric car in neutral simply means that the motor is unpowered. There's no power applied to it, so no resistance. Park differs by either engaging a parking pawl in the gearbox, same as a normal automatic gearbox. That is a little mechanical arm which stops the gearbox/diff from being able to turn or in the case of the Tesla Model 3, purely using the electronic handbrake.

Note that Tesla didn't include a parking pawl to save around $25 per car. Now imagine the cost and reliability implications of a mechanism you don't need that de-couples the wheels from the motor.

The cooling issue will be the most likely, it's the same reason you can't tow an automatic. The pump on an automatic is typically driven by the engine. Of course, the cooling system also cools the batteries, and you could even have issues with convection pushing coolant around, and depositing heat in the battery pack.

So in theory, you could tow if the car is on and in ready mode, so pumps would be running, but at that point, you'd be as well to just drive the thing. If you were in a total pinch, you could probably get away with being towed with it in 'electronic neutral', as the cooling pumps for the motor/diff would be running.

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9 hours ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Some electric cars don't have a neutral position in their transmission: their wheels are always connected to their engine; when the wheels turn the motor also turns with the wheels. If that type of car is towed, its engine could be damaged. Particularly in vehicles with a liquid cooling system, turning the engine without the cooling system in action can overheat the engine and damage it irreparably.

However, there is nothing to stop car makers engineering a car with a neutral position in their transmission. Nor it is expensive. In general, an electric car is much more reliable than a petrol car, for having far fewer moving parts.

In view of this serious issue, it should be a legal requirement that these vehicles are able to be towed clear. The manufacturers can't have overlooked this and must be aware of this shortcoming and yet choose not to have a tow option, strange that?

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I suppose that we are at least making attempts to provide infrastructure for these go karts...

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=59362&headline=Plan for 300 electric car charge points&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020

I'm looking forward to understanding the implications of shipping a car deck full of these things on a daily basis, I wouldn't want to be around if one caught fire! 

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On 12/5/2020 at 6:16 PM, Max Power said:

I suppose that we are at least making attempts to provide infrastructure for these go karts...

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=59362&headline=Plan for 300 electric car charge points&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020

I'm looking forward to understanding the implications of shipping a car deck full of these things on a daily basis, I wouldn't want to be around if one caught fire! 

Petrol cars burn well too, look what happened to all the old Novas, and what often befalls old VW campers on the motorway.

The only difference is, when a petrol car has finished being on fire, the odds are it won't want a second go at being on fire a couple of days later in a scrapyard.

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12 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Petrol cars burn well too, look what happened to all the old Novas, and what often befalls old VW campers on the motorway.

The only difference is, when a petrol car has finished being on fire, the odds are it won't want a second go at being on fire a couple of days later in a scrapyard.

You only have to look at that carpark in Liverpool a couple of new years eve's ago!

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1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Petrol cars burn well too, look what happened to all the old Novas, and what often befalls old VW campers on the motorway.

The only difference is, when a petrol car has finished being on fire, the odds are it won't want a second go at being on fire a couple of days later in a scrapyard.

Aye, but you do stand a chance of extinguishing a petrol fire, these things have to burn themselves out!

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