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TT 2022 ??


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Just now, HeliX said:

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

So you are saying that the death of someone (possibly two people yet) in a 150mph fireball is worth it all then for such an incredible spectacle. Thanks for clarifying.

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1 minute ago, HeliX said:

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

That's fair enough. But do you want baby steps or big boy steps?

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3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I didn't say everyone agreed with anyone. My experience is that a lot of people have mixed views. Some are very anti and some very pro. Most that I know are like me. They are confused about it. They are honest. Like me, they love it, but they question it's sustainability in the longer run.

What I was saying that I find it incredible that everyone you know is pro. 

I don't want it to end but I fear it will if these terrible statistics don't improve. Every death is now a nail in the coffin for it. Those who really love it need to get that. 

I did say "almost everyone I know". Of course I also know people who are anti the TT, and people who are more or less indifferent.

People have been saying that each crash/life changing injury/fatality is a nail in the coffin for several decades. I'm glad it hasn't been. If people want to pursue dangerous endeavours in their lives because that's what brings them joy, then let them at it.

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1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

That's fair enough. But do you want baby steps or big boy steps?

Depends what the steps are. Evidence based steps might be a good starting point... Lower CC classes, lean into the more environmentally friendly/modern stuff at the same time. It's a little surprising to me that it hasn't already, given that the most popular sector in road bikes is middleweight nakeds, I'm surprised that manufacturers haven't been pushing for that class' inclusion in racing series.

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2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

 If people want to pursue dangerous endeavours in their lives because that's what brings them joy, then let them at it.

We are not 'letting them at it', we are providing the facility for them to do it. 

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2 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

 

Screenshot_20220605-184423_Chrome.jpg

I'm not sure if you're intentionally missing the point, but by "associated festival" I mean "the bits away from the racing." That's why I mentioned it as a separate thing in the first place. 1886 have done a great job, the stage up at the Grandstand is great, the new layout at the Grandstand in general is a big improvement, lots of businesses have put up excellent stands etc.

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9 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I didn't say everyone agreed with anyone. My experience is that a lot of people have mixed views. Some are very anti and some very pro. Most that I know are like me. They are confused about it. They are honest. Like me, they love it, but they question it's sustainability in the longer run.

What I was saying that I find it incredible that everyone you know is pro. 

I don't want it to end but I fear it will if these terrible statistics don't improve. Every death is now a nail in the coffin for it. Those who really love it need to get that. 

Those that dislike the TT have been saying this for years... Yet here we are

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1 minute ago, HeliX said:

Depends what the steps are. Evidence based steps might be a good starting point... Lower CC classes, lean into the more environmentally friendly/modern stuff at the same time. It's a little surprising to me that it hasn't already, given that the most popular sector in road bikes is middleweight nakeds, I'm surprised that manufacturers haven't been pushing for that class' inclusion in racing series.

I'll certainly agree with that post. The average speed needs to come down a bit, not go up. It would be a great step forward if the obsession with being faster was stopped. What's wrong with focusing on the competition itself rather the out and out speed?

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2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

"UNFORTUNATE - Some Die in the process"..............?????????? wow!

The course could be  made a lot safer, but will not be, because it would take  tens of millions of spend - Install Aramco barriers  3 high  both sides  with catch fencing above -   Around the whole course - like they do  in  normal motor  sport street events.

"UNFORTUNATE" is a shocking statement for someone who, from your prior  posts  on this forum, sets themselves up as a liberal intellectual. 

I think you have now blown that image.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I'll certainly agree with that post. The average speed needs to come down a bit, not go up. It would be a great step forward if the obsession with being faster was stopped. What's wrong with focusing on the competition itself rather the out and out speed?

It'd be hard to undo the years of focus on the absolute highest average mph laptimes, but a sharp change in the bike classes would be a decent way to break away from it. I'm sure someone has the stats on which classes are most dangerous, but at the risk of putting my foot in my mouth I think it's fair to assume it's the faster ones. A move to Twins/Supersport/Naked/Electric would presumably improve safety, and the bikes would better reflect what normal punters are riding anyway.

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Just now, Blade Runner said:

"UNFORTUNATE - Some Die in the process"..............?????????? wow!

The course could be  made a lot safer, but will not be, because it would take  tens of millions of spend - Install Aramco barriers  3 high  both sides  with catch fencing above -   Around the whole course - like they do  in  normal motor  sport street events.

"UNFORTUNATE" is a shocking statement for someone who, from your prior  posts  on this forum, sets themselves up as a liberal intellectual. 

I think you have now blown that image.

It is unfortunate. That's the appropriate word for it.

And I'd hope I haven't got an image as a liberal, I'm a communist.

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2 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

The course could be  made a lot safer, but will not be, because it would take  tens of millions of spend - Install Aramco barriers  3 high  both sides  with catch fencing above -   Around the whole course - like they do  in  normal motor  sport street events.

This may have stopped the Bray Hill incident, but I'm not sure it would've been a safety improvement in any of the others. This is why I said that evidence-based was the right approach to safety. Installing air fencing isn't going to stop any of the crashes that involve a rider sliding along the floor.

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