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TT 2022 ??


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14 hours ago, Capt_Mainwaring said:

Oh yes I understand the scale is different. The TT is what though, a few days in total? If it was happening all summer, does that make a difference? I don't know. Just trying to rationalise it in my head. Is one death too many? Could you apply that to any pastime where death could result? 

If it was happening all summer then would there be around 65 deaths per year?

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16 hours ago, Capt_Mainwaring said:

Don't go being all factual! Boris just laughs and doesn't respond to the valid points being raised.

You don't normally lose limbs mountain biking and rarely need air lifting and weeks of intensive nursing.

I agree that sometimes this happens though. 

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10 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You don't normally lose limbs mountain biking and rarely need air lifting and weeks of intensive nursing.

I agree that sometimes this happens though. 

I think the point that's being talked across is that it's just an irreconcilable difference in acceptable risk. The pro-TT posters think the risk in the TT is acceptable, as are all risks lower than that (mountain biking/whatever). The anti-TT posters think the risk of the TT is unacceptable, and other things that are less risky (mountain biking/whatever) are acceptable.

I don't think anyone's going to change their mind.

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17 hours ago, Markduc said:

The riders insurance cover the medical bills , tax payers don’t 

look it up , it ain’t difficult 

But that's only true for non-UK riders, isn't it?

As @Happier diner has already said, emergency medical costs for UK riders will be covered by the reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM.  The only costs that won't be picked up by that will be (1) the costs of any ongoing non-emergency NHS care in the IoM, and (2) the cost of transferring the rider(s) back to the UK - and then only if that transfer is not required as part of their emergency medical care. 

The only way I can see what you say would be true is if Noble's routinely billed injured riders or their insurers for medical costs, and I don't think any body has suggested that that happens, have they?

If it isn't difficult and you've looked it up, could you share the source as I'd be interested to know if what you say is correct.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I think the point that's being talked across is that it's just an irreconcilable difference in acceptable risk. The pro-TT posters think the risk in the TT is acceptable, as are all risks lower than that (mountain biking/whatever). The anti-TT posters think the risk of the TT is unacceptable, and other things that are less risky (mountain biking/whatever) are acceptable.

I don't think anyone's going to change their mind.

I think you are being a bit unfair. I agree there are other sports where you might question if it's right for the state to pick up the costs if you seriously injure yourself doing a dangerous hobby.

It's just my view but I don't think there is much quite so high risk as the TT and statistics would back this up. 

Like I said previously, other countries view this differently. For example, in the states everyone has to have insurance for healthcare. It would exclude dangerous sports by default and would certainly cost significantly more if you added motorcycle racing.

Here and in the UK all treatment is free at the point service. However neither the IOM or the UK will pay for long term care if you are say brain damaged or disabled. Once your treatment is finished you are on your own apart from incapability benefit. 

Edited by Happier diner
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9 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

But that's only true for non-UK riders, isn't it?

As @Happier diner has already said, emergency medical costs for UK riders will be covered by the reciprocal agreement between the UK and IoM.  The only costs that won't be picked up by that will be (1) the costs of any ongoing non-emergency NHS care in the IoM, and (2) the cost of transferring the rider(s) back to the UK - and then only if that transfer is not required as part of their emergency medical care. 

The only way I can see what you say would be true is if Noble's routinely billed injured riders or their insurers for medical costs, and I don't think any body has suggested that that happens, have they?

If it isn't difficult and you've looked it up, could you share the source as I'd be interested to know if what you say is correct.

Your points are fair. However I wasn't discussion reciprocal agreements. I was questioning if it was right for any tax payer to pick up this cost, either side of the water.

It's an interesting discussion and there are some difficult ethical dilemmas. 

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Well I’ve searched and I’m surprised. 
 

One of their own, and the TT ghouls haven’t started a Just Giving page. Goes to show how quickly they forget about their own. 
anyway Mrs Hislop will just have to soldier on. 

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10 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

It's just my view but I don't think there is anything quite so high risk as the TT and statistics would back this up. 

Wingsuit Flying - 1 death per 500 jumps.  More than 400 people have died since 1981.

There are most definitely sport activities that carry considerably more risk than the TT.

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7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Wingsuit Flying - 1 death per 500 jumps.  More than 400 people have died since 1981.

There are most definitely sport activities that carry considerably more risk than the TT.

That's pretty dangerous. I'll edit my post.🤗

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Your points are fair. However I wasn't discussion reciprocal agreements. I was questioning if it was right for any tax payer to pick up this cost, either side of the water.

It's an interesting discussion and there are some difficult ethical dilemmas. 

Don't worry.  I understand perfectly well the point you're making.

I was simply questioning @Markduc's categoric statement (and @hissingsid's apparent agreement with it) that all riders' medical bills were picked up by their insurance - and the implication that anybody who didn't know this was at fault in some way.  (And if insurer's did pay the bills, then it would impact on your taxpayer argument - if it happened to be true).

I don't think he's right.  Unless, of course, emergency medical costs for TT competitors from the UK are excluded from the reciprocal agreement.  But if that were the case, I'd have expected somebody to have mentioned it in this thread before now.

Edited by Ghost Ship
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23 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Wingsuit Flying - 1 death per 500 jumps.  More than 400 people have died since 1981.

There are most definitely sport activities that carry considerably more risk than the TT.

Mountaineers on K2.  Approximately 1 person dies per 5 people summiting! 

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4 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Mountaineers on K2.  Approximately 1 person dies per 5 people summiting! 

There are several sports with death and injury rates not much different to the TT but pointing them out is pointless to people who can’t see past their own opinion that it must be banned.

BASE jumpers rely on a single canopy with no reserve parachute. Estimates of injury rate are 0.2-0.4% per jump [2,3] and fatality rates of 0.04% per jump or 1.7% per participant per year [3, 4] , suggesting that this is one of the most dangerous sporting activities.

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