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No votes in climate change?


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Larger and more encompassing taxes is all that will be achieved.

Most households will be concerned about the cost of living, job prospects and health/education.   I honestly don't think climate change will feature in the top 5 list of concerns for the ave

Well, when your nether-region is alight please let us all know.  It's not something either you, your children or grand-children need worry about. Clean up the planet, create sustainable and energ

13 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Thanks for your input Sultan Terry

Come on neil, you're not that dumb. Terry may be a fuckwit, but he's not the sultan. He's over on twitter these days being a prick to that Devon guy.

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1 hour ago, finlo said:

It's owed to Barclays unless I've missed something?

I stand to be corrected - Barclays were paid off, leaving the debt in the Govt's court. Otherwise the interest would have been unsustainable. Hence the ratepayers being hit now (and till whenever/forever), even if it's just to balance the Treasury books.

It's worth remembering that what is now the "Sewerage Charge" was born of an amalgamation of the old Water Authority (later the Water And Sewerage Authority)'s authorised, legal, structured debt, with the MEA's unauthorised, illegal, unstructured debt on the very politically convenient merging of the two Utilities.

Which was done for one reason and one reason only, which was to scuff the tracks of what had happened with the Power Station and the MEA, in the certain knowledge that it would be quickly accepted by the largely short-memoried electorate and allow those responsible to depart the scene and/or finish their political careers without penalty.

The subsequent Inquiry essentially found that, "No-one was to blame" for a (then) £300M debt. Mainly because it would have been pointless chasing anybody for that sort of sum. The MEA Board had previously resigned en bloc as well. So no-one accountable.

The electorate are now carrying the can.

Edited by Non-Believer
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I was still led to believe that we owe in round figures half a billion on the MEA stuff in the form of a 25year bond that we are only servicing the interest at the moment.

At the end of the 25 years we still owe 500,000,000.00 and bonds will not be as cheap now we have lost our AAA rating.

Please feel free to correct me but this is how I understand it.

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9 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

I was still led to believe that we owe in round figures half a billion on the MEA stuff in the form of a 25year bond that we are only servicing the interest at the moment.

At the end of the 25 years we still owe 500,000,000.00 and bonds will not be as cheap now we have lost our AAA rating.

Please feel free to correct me but this is how I understand it.

I think that is wrong.  The MEA loans are all owed to the IOM Govt?

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1 minute ago, TerryFuchwit said:

I think that is wrong.  The MEA loans are all owed to the IOM Govt?

 

I think the original loans were bought from Barclays with the money coming from bonds they issued but we still owe half a billion on the bonds and will do still after 25 years.

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33 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

 

I think the original loans were bought from Barclays with the money coming from bonds they issued but we still owe half a billion on the bonds and will do still after 25 years.

The bonds were issued by the govt to the MEA?

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Bonds are offered to the "market" who buy them from you. you then owe the money you borrowed to the Saudi Investment corp, for example or whoever took up your offer. What you do with the money they give you is your business. In this case the gov used it to pay off the MEA loans. That is my understanding.

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2 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

Bonds are offered to the "market" who buy them from you. you then owe the money you borrowed to the Saudi Investment corp, for example or whoever took up your offer. What you do with the money they give you is your business. In this case the gov used it to pay off the MEA loans. That is my understanding.

I'm not aware the iom can even raise debt externally like you've articulated.   It took a Tynwald amendment to allow them to borrow up to 250m.  

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1 hour ago, TerryFuchwit said:

I'm not aware the iom can even raise debt externally like you've articulated.   It took a Tynwald amendment to allow them to borrow up to 250m.  

Of course it can, it does, and has.

What it can’t do is run a current account deficit.

But for capital account expenditure it can, and does, borrow. It’ll do that, directly or indirectly to finance the Manxman, it did it to repay Barclays on MEA cable, and for the MUA works.

The £250m, not sure if it’s been used. Income was better than budgeted last year. But the borrowing was to avoid selling investments forming part of the reserves.

All government borrowing has to be sanctioned by Tynwald. There was a provision that allowed a small discretion ( think it was £5m ).

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5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Of course it can, it does, and has.

What it can’t do is run a current account deficit.

But for capital account expenditure it can, and does, borrow. It’ll do that, directly or indirectly to finance the Manxman, it did it to repay Barclays on MEA cable, and for the MUA works.

The £250m, not sure if it’s been used. Income was better than budgeted last year. But the borrowing was to avoid selling investments forming part of the reserves.

All government borrowing has to be sanctioned by Tynwald. There was a provision that allowed a small discretion ( think it was £5m ).

Of the 250m a loan of 150m was taken.  In the main not used so far.

In relation to the MEA debt - do you know where the information on the bond issue is? Are they tradable?

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9 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

Of the 250m a loan of 150m was taken.  In the main not used so far.

In relation to the MEA debt - do you know where the information on the bond issue is? Are they tradable?

The MEA was, I think, placed with one holder. So no trading. I may be wrong.

Nows the time to borrow for capital projects, low coupon, repay older higher rate borrowing and bank overdraft.

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald 20162018/2017-GD-0045.pdf

“Manx Utilities has relatively high levels of debt following substantive debt-financed capital investment in electricity and water services in the early 2000s. There are two main sources of debt: £260 million of Isle of Man Government Treasury Bonds, comprising two bonds of £75 million and £185 million, and the Consolidated Loans Fund (CLF), which comprises a portfolio of loans drawn-down to finance on-going capital expenditure in the energy and sewerage businesses at around £270 million. Together, the public bonds and CLF approximately equal the value of fixed assets.”

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