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Consultation on e-bikes and e-scooters


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Having used electric scooters to bimble about in American cities, they're fantastic when used appropriately. I don't think we want anything like Lime here, where you have small hordes of scooters everywhere, but for nipping across town, or doing a couple of miles to work, they're perfect.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/public-feedback-wanted-on-electric-bikes-and-scooters/

 

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For my two-penneth worth, I've never ridden a motorbike (terrified pillion a few times) and pushbikes only up until I learned to drive. The thing I find mystifying about the obsession with 'active tra

They seem to always have a "we live in a sunny, big city" type mentality when making up these policies. We have very narrow roads built (and currently maintained to the standard) for carrying horse an

Cambon is correct, lots of people have been put off less damaging transport than cars, by rules and regulations. For instance the requirement here to do repeated CBT to ride a moped or tiny motorcycle

There needs to be a tipping point where enough people take up the use of e-bikes and e-scooters, so that drivers get used to sharing the roads with them, and the drivers seeing the benefit through reduced congestion. I imagine car drivers won't be happy if they are stuck in queues of traffic with loads of e-bikes and e-scooters whizzing past them.

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The snag with them is that they get used on footpaths where people are walking. If you feel vulnerable with people cycling on pavements, footpaths etc just wait until you experience e-scooters. The privately owned ones, which we have all seen across, tend to be ridden by selfish youths or aggressive immature young men at speed on pavements and then jumping randomly out in front of users of the main highway. I have seen mini-tsunamis of them during my enforced stay over here in England, and it's not nice. You also get loads of mothers taking their children for a whiz around standing on the same e-scooter. E-bikes are OK but they are often chipped to remove the speed restriction, and ridden by people who only have a vague idea of the highway code. Unlike car drivers, who can easily be traced by their number plates, e-bikes are anonymous, and in any case, the police here in Guildford, at least, are too lazy to go after any law-breakers.

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Car drivers get unhappy when they're stuck in queues of other cars and see cyclists whizzing past them too. That's because there are too many cars trying to use (and park on) the same road at the same time though, not because there's a problem with cycling. I guess the same will apply to e-bikes and e-scooters. I agree there will be issues keeping them off pavements and I also suspect small wheeled e-scooters may struggle with the state of Manx road surfaces. All the more reason for proper infrastructure for alternative forms of transport. 

Slightly off-topic, but I thought this was a good video, albeit its UK urban / suburban focus won't exactly map to the IoM, Douglas aside. 

 

Edited by Yibble
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17 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Fine by me provided they pay road tax and have insurance.

Consultation suggests it wouldn't be worth the cost of making them register, and detract from the goal of reducing cars.

Road wear would be not dissimilar to a bicycle, based on the weight and 0 emissions. And their rationale is you'd only do as much damage as a bicycle, which doesn't require insurance. E-bikes with pedal assist don't require tax or insurance for the same power limits.

1 hour ago, Manxman27 said:

There needs to be a tipping point where enough people take up the use of e-bikes and e-scooters, so that drivers get used to sharing the roads with them, and the drivers seeing the benefit through reduced congestion. I imagine car drivers won't be happy if they are stuck in queues of traffic with loads of e-bikes and e-scooters whizzing past them.

It's no different to filtering on a motorcycle, which is perfectly allowable in the highway code.

42 minutes ago, Thie Veg said:

The snag with them is that they get used on footpaths where people are walking. If you feel vulnerable with people cycling on pavements, footpaths etc just wait until you experience e-scooters. The privately owned ones, which we have all seen across, tend to be ridden by selfish youths or aggressive immature young men at speed on pavements and then jumping randomly out in front of users of the main highway.

Realistically, they should be using the roads like cyclists would, that's the legal requirement in a lot of the US cities for example. I agree though that you don't want them becoming yob machines. Dallas for example, requires you to have a driver's license to have one. That feels like overkill, but the DoI are proposing a minimum age of 16.

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21 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Consultation suggests it wouldn't be worth the cost of making them register, and detract from the goal of reducing cars.

Road wear would be not dissimilar to a bicycle, based on the weight and 0 emissions. And their rationale is you'd only do as much damage as a bicycle, which doesn't require insurance. E-bikes with pedal assist don't require tax or insurance for the same power limits.

It's no different to filtering on a motorcycle, which is perfectly allowable in the highway code.

Realistically, they should be using the roads like cyclists would, that's the legal requirement in a lot of the US cities for example. I agree though that you don't want them becoming yob machines. Dallas for example, requires you to have a driver's license to have one. That feels like overkill, but the DoI are proposing a minimum age of 16.

That is the way mopeds started. Post war, mopeds were cheap transport for the masses. No licence or insurance required. They were restricted in speed between 20-30 mph depending on the country. However, slowly legislation was brought in. These days over here you require insurance, registration, CBT and at least a provisional license. Current new mopeds are still restricted to around 30mph. All of those restrictions are why they went out of favour. 

E bikes are restricted to 25kph (around 17 mph). These is easily overridden and most are capable of 50-60kph (30-35mph). That being the case, they should be subject to the same restrictions. 

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They seem to always have a "we live in a sunny, big city" type mentality when making up these policies. We have very narrow roads built (and currently maintained to the standard) for carrying horse and carts.

I'm expecting our accident rate to ramp up over the next few years - electric cars you can't hear, a very small increase in pedal cyclists and e-cyclists clogging up busy roads, too many 4x$'s that people can't seem to drive properly (without stopping to let another one come up the same road in the opposite direction) - and a lot of frustrated motorists.

In short, the roads are too narrow to cater for both cars and cyclists, we have too many unnecessarily large cars that need taking off the roads, and too many idiot drivers for the system to work for both - as well as shit weather so few will take up cycling as a serious commuter option. They should concentrate on the leisure side of cycling away from the main roads, where people can be safe when they take the family out e.g. Douglas to Peel (old railway track etc.).  

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Cambon is correct, lots of people have been put off less damaging transport than cars, by rules and regulations. For instance the requirement here to do repeated CBT to ride a moped or tiny motorcycle on l plates, despite being a car driver for 40years was very off-putting. I had no intention of getting a large motor cycle or passing a test so sold my machines. Had I have been able to do the one CBT then keep L plates on that would have been a different matter.

I certainly hope the electric stuff does not get legislated out of sight.

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2 hours ago, Cambon said:

Fine by me provided they pay road tax and have insurance.

come back to that one when every car on the road pays tax and insurance, what was it 440 reported this week.

Edited by The Chief
appalling grammar again
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41 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They seem to always have a "we live in a sunny, big city" type mentality when making up these policies.

Ah yes, the sunny tropical hotspots of Amsterdam, Copenhagen and (increasingly) Manchester and Dublin. It could never work here, not until someone invents the coat at least.

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1 hour ago, Cambon said:

That is the way mopeds started. Post war, mopeds were cheap transport for the masses. No licence or insurance required. They were restricted in speed between 20-30 mph depending on the country. However, slowly legislation was brought in. These days over here you require insurance, registration, CBT and at least a provisional license. Current new mopeds are still restricted to around 30mph. All of those restrictions are why they went out of favour. 

E bikes are restricted to 25kph (around 17 mph). These is easily overridden and most are capable of 50-60kph (30-35mph). That being the case, they should be subject to the same restrictions. 

Have you ever been on one of the old things? I've done 50 on a kitted one (beyond the speedo) and cup and cone bearings that are 40 years old, with drum brakes is a scary proposition. In many parts of Europe and the US, they're still fairly deregulated as they are just glorified bicycles in the true form of a moped.

Ironically, they're now mostly tax and MOT exempt in the UK from age, you just need an AM license, which you can get for life by taking a CBT with a full car license, or have if you passed your test before 2001. Otherwise it's a CBT every 2 years. Insurance is about 50 quid a year too.

They went out of favour because it turns out, 50s bicycle designs with an engine strapped on, comfortable, elegant transport does not make. They're heavy, noisy and slow. The modern day toilets are still the fare of 16 year olds across. They too can be de-restricted with a drill or broom handle to make the baffle fall out officer. At one point, police were using a portable dyno at colleges to catch them out.

E-bikes legally are restricted to their 250w guise, part of the consultation is to allow the 800w pedal assist models too. Throttle based ones are only grandfathered in, but still have to produce under 250w.

I think the view is to allowing e-scooters under that same 250w limit, you'd soon get your collar felt over here for causing nuisance or distress anywhere public at high speeds.

 

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2 hours ago, asitis said:

Cambon is correct, lots of people have been put off less damaging transport than cars, by rules and regulations. For instance the requirement here to do repeated CBT to ride a moped or tiny motorcycle on l plates, despite being a car driver for 40years was very off-putting. I had no intention of getting a large motor cycle or passing a test so sold my machines. Had I have been able to do the one CBT then keep L plates on that would have been a different matter.

I certainly hope the electric stuff does not get legislated out of sight.

In the UK, if you did your test before 2001, or you have a full car license when you do your CBT, you're granted the AM category for up to 50cc at 28mph for life. With the ability for passengers and no L-plates.

Currently, electric kick scooters are illegal on the road. That's what they're looking to change, by allowing the 15.5mph limit without tax or insurance.

Edited by AcousticallyChallenged
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