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5 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

The only reason that they will be making that "movie" is because there is a perceived demand for it.  Personally I won't be watching it because I have no real interest in the Royal Family.  I haven't and won't be watching "The Crown" for that very reason.

Slavery was based on a perceived superiority in most cases so it is linked to racism.  I think the attitudes surfacing today relate to much more recent events and are being driven by people feeling threatened by equality as they see their own opportunities as being eroded.  This of course is not helped by all the politics surrounding asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. 

@John Wright did you see a report recently (in The Guardian I think) about the wearing of wigs in the legal profession?  The summary was that many BAME Lawyers were very supportive of the practice because it clearly identified them as being a Solicitor/Barrister.

I’m not sure that slavery was originally based on superiority. It’s a power thing. And of course, with power comes a sense of entitlement and superiority. And then you use all sorts, religious texts, skin colour, accent, denomination, wealth, to justify.

Its 10 years since I last wore my wig. Much reduced here and in UK. Solicitors don’t wear wigs anyway. Yes, there are multiple stories about barristers or solicitors of colour, or with regional accents, being mistaken for the defendant.

When the metal detector arch at the courts was introduced we were offered ID cards so we didn’t suffer the indignity of pat down or bags being inspected. I refused. Seemed a daft, and racist, assumption that just because we were advocates we wouldn’t be capable of doing something daft. It’s a bit like Steam Packet exemptions. Of course they recognise me. So I don’t get the treatment. In fact, in the wheelchair I even by pass the tunnel.

Of course there’s a tendency for the establishment to not look to deeply at those they think are their own, or part of the establishment and assume safety. Or for others to look and assume establishment because of job, education, etc. Whereas, I hope I’m an individual and an outsider. Not a dangerous one, you understand, unless philosophy, thought and politics are dangerous.

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Find it fascinating how much of an uproar this has caused while Prince "He who cannot sweat" is mooching about still noshing a 10" deep dish

He said what we’re all thinking. “Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government”

The whole thing is bollocks from start to finish. A fully produced and scripted interview with each line crafted for effect by Hollywood P.R. agents and lawyers; all directed, choreographed, costumed,

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7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

...unless philosophy, thought and politics are dangerous.

I have to assume this is sarcasm because each one of those are prime motivators historically and contemporaneously for divisive societal problems the world over...

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2 hours ago, John Wright said:

About the time the allegations surfaced I was conducting an interview at Police HQ. 3 in the morning. An independent observer was present. The officer was originally from Eastern Europe. Speaks perfect idiomatic but slightly accented English. Better than some advocates and many call centre staff. The  observer interrupted complaining about the accent. Observer spoke with a broad East Lancs accent. 

Was that racist?  I thought long and hard. It was unwarranted. What other purpose, other than unconscious racism, by the observer. There are officers with Scouse, Scots and Welsh accent. Some Londoners. No clearer or intelligible.

Realised I had not addressed the question of racism in the example you provided.

I don't think this example is racist, but it would depend on how exactly it was expressed.  I work with colleagues from England, Scotland, Wales and France and accents do cause problems.  Generally I do not struggle with the Scottish accent and dialect, however, one Welsh colleague speaks very rapidly with a thick Welsh accent that makes it difficult for me to understand and our French colleagues find it absolutely baffling.  To address this we just remind him to slow his speech down so that we can understand him better.  

If in the scenario you gave the observer objected on the basis of the officer heritage or said something along the lines of "can't we get an English officer because I can't understand what this guy is saying" then I would probably be more inclined to consider it racist.

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9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Realised I had not addressed the question of racism in the example you provided.

I don't think this example is racist, but it would depend on how exactly it was expressed.  I work with colleagues from England, Scotland, Wales and France and accents do cause problems.  Generally I do not struggle with the Scottish accent and dialect, however, one Welsh colleague speaks very rapidly with a thick Welsh accent that makes it difficult for me to understand and our French colleagues find it absolutely baffling.  To address this we just remind him to slow his speech down so that we can understand him better.  

If in the scenario you gave the observer objected on the basis of the officer heritage or said something along the lines of "can't we get an English officer because I can't understand what this guy is saying" then I would probably be more inclined to consider it racist.

Sorry, thought I’d made it clear there was no possibility of what the officer was saying being misunderstood.

It was late, we were all tired. Perhaps that’s the explanation. The observer was being cranky, or my reaction was cranky.

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4 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Realised I had not addressed the question of racism in the example you provided.

I don't think this example is racist, but it would depend on how exactly it was expressed.  I work with colleagues from England, Scotland, Wales and France and accents do cause problems.  Generally I do not struggle with the Scottish accent and dialect, however, one Welsh colleague speaks very rapidly with a thick Welsh accent that makes it difficult for me to understand and our French colleagues find it absolutely baffling.  To address this we just remind him to slow his speech down so that we can understand him better.  

If in the scenario you gave the observer objected on the basis of the officer heritage or said something along the lines of "can't we get an English officer because I can't understand what this guy is saying" then I would probably be more inclined to consider it racist.

why would that be racist. If the observer can't understand what was said then surely he had every right to get somebody he could understand

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11 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

why would that be racist. If the observer can't understand what was said then surely he had every right to get somebody he could understand

I could understand. My client could understand. There was no ambiguity and nothing was unintelligible.

The observer shouldn’t have intervened at all.

So question is why?

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2 hours ago, John Wright said:

I could understand. My client could understand. There was no ambiguity and nothing was unintelligible.

The observer shouldn’t have intervened at all.

So question is why?

Sorry John, what is the role of the observer?

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14 hours ago, Peter Layman said:

why would that be racist. If the observer can't understand what was said then surely he had every right to get somebody he could understand

I didn't say it was racist.  I said I would be more inclined to consider it racist but I wasn't there and I don't know how those involved would have reacted. 

11 hours ago, Peter Layman said:

Sorry John, what is the role of the observer?

To observe....

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10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

To observe....

That is what I understood the role to be. That being the case, should the observer be in a position where he understands clearly what is said?

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42 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

That is what I understood the role to be. That being the case, should the observer be in a position where he understands clearly what is said?

You’ve assumed two things.

Above you assumed the observer was male. That’s sexist.

You assume the observer couldn’t/didn’t understand. They could, and did. It was a needless comment.

That being said police questions at 3 in the morning are often convoluted - but that’s a different issue.

My best guess is that the observer felt the need to comment to justify their presence, but the choice of intervention was sub consciously racist.

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4 hours ago, John Wright said:

You’ve assumed two things.

Above you assumed the observer was male. That’s sexist.

You assume the observer couldn’t/didn’t understand. They could, and did. It was a needless comment.

That being said police questions at 3 in the morning are often convoluted - but that’s a different issue.

My best guess is that the observer felt the need to comment to justify their presence, but the choice of intervention was sub consciously racist.

Had I said he/she no doubt you would have screamed gender neutral. That being said, as you were there and I wasn’t let’s park it there eh

 

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