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Douglas Borough Council - Employment Tribunal case


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42 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No you don't.  Or at least not income tax and NI which is just under 21% for people earning over 40K.  This guy would be paying less, but still around 15%.  If you have chosen to pay large amounts into a pension fund for your own later benefit that is your decision.  He'll be paying about 6.5% for his scheme.

It's probably all the court fines and paternity payments that is pushing your percentage up.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No you don't.  Or at least not income tax and NI which is just under 21% for people earning over 40K.  This guy would be paying less, but still around 15%.  If you have chosen to pay large amounts into a pension fund for your own later benefit that is your decision.  He'll be paying about 6.5% for his scheme.

It's probably all the court fines and paternity payments that is pushing your percentage up.:lol:

 

42 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No you don't.  Or at least not income tax and NI which is just under 21% for people earning over 40K.  This guy would be paying less, but still around 15%.  If you have chosen to pay large amounts into a pension fund for your own later benefit that is your decision.  He'll be paying about 6.5% for his scheme.

It's probably all the court fines and paternity payments that is pushing your percentage up.:lol:

Yes inclusive of pension but hardly a vast amount! Oh and I've only ever had one fine which I'm sure was rigged for speeding.

Edited by finlo
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4 minutes ago, Apple said:

Rumour going round that extra payments were made for those going above and beyond etc.

Presumably it was well deserved.

What say ?

Strange structures, some of these bigger local authorities. Lots of guys "on the bottom rungs" on the lower grades (albeit with good pension provision by the LA), not on much more than £10 per hour before other deductions (and ten years ago it was a lot, lot less, take home was @ £270 a week). The tradesmen get more however. Then we move into the town halls and such where there's a huge, quantum leap in salaries, up from £50k to well over £100k pa in plenty of cases with any amount of "jobs for rels/mates" and empire-building going on too. Before anybody asks, I speak from experience. Try @ £300k spread between 3 offices.

Of course it's part of the job of these high earners to keep the numbers and the earnings of the lower grades down in the name of "savings" and "keeping the rates down for the ratepayers" which is the Big One of course and which appeals to the elected representatives. It's very much an "us and them" world which is why there's so much union membership and cases such as the OP which happen far more often than you'd imagine.

There is little such enthusiasm for any such economies when it comes to those administrative salaries however, (which are set anyway by the PSC and NGA bodies) and given the aforementioned "jobs for mates" culture the numbers far, far exceed those of the bottom feeders but are seemingly untouchable (although one elected member did once confide in me that they found the situation "ridiculous" and "disgusting", given the size and nature of the Authority - but appear powerless to do anything about it).

It's basically a grab as much as you can, look after yourself and fill yer boots culture with little respect for where the money's actually coming from, which is tax and ratepayers.

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34 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Strange structures, some of these bigger local authorities. Lots of guys "on the bottom rungs" on the lower grades (albeit with good pension provision by the LA), not on much more than £10 per hour before other deductions (and ten years ago it was a lot, lot less, take home was @ £270 a week). The tradesmen get more however. Then we move into the town halls and such where there's a huge, quantum leap in salaries, up from £50k to well over £100k pa in plenty of cases with any amount of "jobs for rels/mates" and empire-building going on too. Before anybody asks, I speak from experience. Try @ £300k spread between 3 offices.

 

There's one person on the island earning 100k plus working for a Local Authority.  At DBC.

In fact, only DBC have a couple in the  75k to 100k range.

Any other LA has, maximum, a couple in the 50 to 75k bracket.  Everyone else is below that. 

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2 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

There's one person on the island earning 100k plus working for a Local Authority.  At DBC.

In fact, only DBC have a couple in the  75k to 100k range.

Any other LA has, maximum, a couple in the 50 to 75k bracket.  Everyone else is below that. 

Are you considering the various extra emoluments for additional responsibilities, duties and attendances as well?

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1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

Are you considering the various extra emoluments for additional responsibilities, duties and attendances as well?

I'm taking data from their financial statements.  Which is more about fact than gossip and hearsay.

Perhaps you can  give us some names and examples?

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1 minute ago, TerryFuchwit said:

I'm taking data from their financial statements.  Which is more about fact than gossip and hearsay.

Perhaps you can  give us some names and examples?

If you seriously think that I'm going to name people on these public boards then you're more deluded than people already think.

The Financial Statements do not tell the whole story, or at least the information is so fragmented that it takes time to assemble the full picture. This has frequently been discussed on these boards previously. Can you post them up please for discussion so we're not talking gossip and hearsay.

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4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

If you seriously think that I'm going to name people on these public boards then you're more deluded than people already think.

The Financial Statements do not tell the whole story, or at least the information is so fragmented that it takes time to assemble the full picture. This has frequently been discussed on these boards previously. Can you post them up please for discussion so we're not talking gossip and hearsay.

Google them yourself. Takes two minutes.

I think you're making it up.

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2 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

Google them yourself. Takes two minutes.

I think you're making it up.

I've no requirement to make it up, it exists, have you ever worked in local Public Sector?

The terms are quite rigid in respect of remuneration for extra duties and are frequently paid at percentage rates pertaining to the basic saries, there's none of the free overtime that the private sector expects and plays on. At the grades I'm talking about it's possible to considerably increase basic salaries simply on pay for statutory extras carried out as a matter of course. 

I've asked you to post up the information that you're quoting in order to try and disparage my posts.

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1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

I've no requirement to make it up, it exists, have you ever worked in local Public Sector?

The terms are quite rigid in respect of remuneration for extra duties and are frequently paid at percentage rates pertaining to the basic saries, there's none of the free overtime that the private sector expects and plays on. At the grades I'm talking about it's possible to considerably increase basic salaries simply on pay for statutory extras carried out as a matter of course. 

I've asked you to post up the information that you're quoting in order to try and disparage my posts.

The information is freely available on all websites of the LA. Simply Google it and the link is there.

For example, in Ramsey the maximum bracket is 50 to 75k.  Of which there are a couple.

https://www.ramsey.gov.im/services/rates-and-finances/audited-accounts/

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24 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

The information is freely available on all websites of the LA. Simply Google it and the link is there.

For example, in Ramsey the maximum bracket is 50 to 75k.  Of which there are a couple.

https://www.ramsey.gov.im/services/rates-and-finances/audited-accounts/

P30 of 2018 for instance, lists one (presumably the Town Clerk?) on a band of £50k - £75k. That's the basic. There is no information in respect of the remuneration for statutory extra duties and attendances as I have outlined.

Interestingly, immediately below that statement there is also the sum of the extra £127,000pa outlaid in that year for "key management and planners" etc. Now who would that group comprise of, do you think? Elected Commissioners are unpaid, so it's not them.

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2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

P30 of 2018 for instance, lists one (presumably the Town Clerk?) on a band of £50k - £75k. That's the basic. There is no information in respect of the remuneration for statutory extra duties and attendances as I have outlined.

Interestingly, immediately below that statement there is also the sum of the extra £127,000pa outlaid in that year for "key management and planners" etc. Now who would that group comprise of, do you think? Elected Commissioners are unpaid, so it's not them.

Perhaps Rhumsaa can confirm?

I think your statements about pay are inaccurate.     "Well over 100k in plenty of cases"   not according to the published statements.

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27 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

Perhaps Rhumsaa can confirm?

I think your statements about pay are inaccurate.     "Well over 100k in plenty of cases"   not according to the published statements.

How many "key decision makers and planners" do you think there are in Ramsey Town Hall to divide £127k between? 4 or 5 maybe? Less? In the real (private sector) world, these people would be doing this as a requirement for their basic salary.

Without going into the salary percentages you can be talking about an extra £25k+pa just on basic salary on simple figures. The published figures don't give any breakdown, which is what I said previously. And this is just RTC we're looking at here. Who knows with DBC? If figures were properly made public, ratepayers would be on the streets.

All I'm alluding to is that above a certain level it's a f@cking great trough.

Edited by Non-Believer
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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/douglas-council-does-not-accept-or-agree-with-tribunal-decision/

Interesting.

1. The staff perhaps could have avoided criticism by attending and giving evidence.
2. If they think the tribunal is 'wrong' then have they considered grounds for appeal.

It really speaks poorly of DBC that they have reacted in this way.

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