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Chief Minister “Joyriders putting bus drivers at risk”


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2 hours ago, Banker said:

But they of course had Tynwald virtually on the Tuesday due to risk but sent everyone into school & work on the same day. They could & should have made an early announcement that schools etc were closing but no we had to wait for Quayle to make a grand announcement!

Precisely.

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1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Much like the "advice" that there were no grounds for prosecution in the SP debacle. 

To add: I don't necessarily want prosecutions, but it would have been more truthful if they explained that there were defects in the directions (which we suspect is the root cause) and that in light of that and the vital role a continuous shipping service plays, it had been decided that prosecution was not in the public interest. 

Michael Josem has posted responses to various FOI requests on his website, which includes some or all (I’m not clear if it’s all of them) of the direction notices:

https://michaeljosem.com/steam-packet-foi-requests/

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1 hour ago, Banker said:

Exactly right, ignore fuchwit he just supports government line even when wrong ,they’ve given no proper response which is why they curtailed questions on it

To be fair Hooper gave him another chance further on in the debate but still didn't really answer it properly then either.

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2 hours ago, Banker said:

Exactly right, ignore fuchwit he just supports government line even when wrong ,they’ve given no proper response which is why they curtailed questions on it

Questions weren't curtailed. They ran out of allotted time. I was listening. Some of the shite that was being spouted took up a large proportion of that time. Comin members were failing to answer questions but the rest of the shower were asking stuff that wasn't related to the original question and the relevant minister would have no chance of answering in any case. The whole thing was a shambles.

Edge's question was unnecessary full stop. Allinson had already provided the detail at an earlier Tynwald.

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44 minutes ago, piebaps said:

Questions weren't curtailed. They ran out of allotted time. I was listening. Some of the shite that was being spouted took up a large proportion of that time. Comin members were failing to answer questions but the rest of the shower were asking stuff that wasn't related to the original question and the relevant minister would have no chance of answering in any case. The whole thing was a shambles.

Edge's question was unnecessary full stop. Allinson had already provided the detail at an earlier Tynwald.

But extending the allotted time is what is normally done.  It's hardly fair on those whose questions have yet to be called if they aren't because the Ministers[1] or their colleagues have been babbling at length.

And while the exchange on Allinson's response on the 9th was interesting and Edge clearly misunderstood some stuff, it didn't answer the question she asked yesterday which was about what documents CoMin had considered.  Unless the honest answer was "None.  We just closed out eyes and hoped naughty Mr Covid would go away".

 

[1]  One thing that has been mercifully rare this Keys, though common under Bell, is for ministers to read out long 'answers' packed with irrelevant padding on the subject and life and the history of everything.  Obviously if you can waste five or even ten minutes with guff before any other members get the chance to speak, most Ministers won't have to face any real questioning before the hour runs out. 

I suspect this hasn't happened simply because questions to the Chief Minister always come first and we know what happens when Quayle reads out long statements.

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3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But extending the allotted time is what is normally done.  It's hardly fair on those whose questions have yet to be called if they aren't because the Ministers[1] or their colleagues have been babbling at length.

And while the exchange on Allinson's response on the 9th was interesting and Edge clearly misunderstood some stuff, it didn't answer the question she asked yesterday which was about what documents CoMin had considered.  Unless the honest answer was "None.  We just closed out eyes and hoped naughty Mr Covid would go away".

As someone who was listening, I'm pretty sure that questions didn't begin until after the opening CM statement. Twatterson specifically announced the start and reminded everyone that there was only an hour and warned them to be concise. He even had to warn some of the supplementary questioners to stick to the point and not repeat earlier questions.

Here's a research challenge for you. What is the percentage of extended Keys question sessions? I don't think extensions are the norm at all. Here's what I found from the last 7 meeting 

26 Jan no extension

2 Feb no extension

9 Feb no extension

23 Feb extended by vote

2 March no extension

9 March no extension

23 March no extension

This is obviously a small sample but based on this its clear that extending the time is NOT what is normally done.

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25 minutes ago, piebaps said:

As someone who was listening, I'm pretty sure that questions didn't begin until after the opening CM statement. Twatterson specifically announced the start and reminded everyone that there was only an hour and warned them to be concise. He even had to warn some of the supplementary questioners to stick to the point and not repeat earlier questions.

Here's a research challenge for you. What is the percentage of extended Keys question sessions? I don't think extensions are the norm at all. Here's what I found from the last 7 meeting 

26 Jan no extension

2 Feb no extension

9 Feb no extension

23 Feb extended by vote

2 March no extension

9 March no extension

23 March no extension

This is obviously a small sample but based on this its clear that extending the time is NOT what is normally done.

Ironically you've just made my point for me.  I was contrasting recent sessions, where as you confirm an extension to question time was vetoed on all but one occasion with those previous.  I looked at the same period last year - of the equivalent seven Keys meetings only two needed extension, but it was voted through both times.

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6 hours ago, piebaps said:

Edge's question was unnecessary full stop. Allinson had already provided the detail at an earlier Tynwald.

In which case his reply would be: "I have already provided a detailed answer to that question in Tynwald sitting DDMMYYYY"

The answer to a question is usually not the point (In Tynwald/Keys no one should be asking a question they don't know the answer to).

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Ironically you've just made my point for me.  I was contrasting recent sessions, where as you confirm an extension to question time was vetoed on all but one occasion with those previous.  I looked at the same period last year - of the equivalent seven Keys meetings only two needed extension, but it was voted through both times.

So two needing extension was seen as questions needing answering.

Now in covid election year they are all asking pointless questions and rightly not being allowed to waste hours doing so.

No conspiracy, just common sense.  Bear in mind I think the entirety of comin are useless so would be the first to criticise if I thought it was justified.

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7 hours ago, piebaps said:

Questions weren't curtailed. They ran out of allotted time. I was listening. Some of the shite that was being spouted took up a large proportion of that time. Comin members were failing to answer questions but the rest of the shower were asking stuff that wasn't related to the original question and the relevant minister would have no chance of answering in any case. The whole thing was a shambles.

Edge's question was unnecessary full stop. Allinson had already provided the detail at an earlier Tynwald.

What, Julie Edge asking unnecessary questions?  Surprised  🤥

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17 hours ago, TerryFuchwit said:

This is one of the biggest issues facing Comin. 

The constant need to respond to lazy people that can't be fluffed finding out the information that is clearly available.

Grandstanding indeed.  I wonder who the MHK is (or who they are) that walk straight out of confidential briefings and phone Paul Moulton up?:)

I never go to Paul Moulton or Manx Radio, if they come to me I will do an interview. IOM Newspapers informed CM of who was publishing information. The male boys of Tynwald all seem to want interviews with PM this week 😀 sure Paul M will tell you how he gets to interview MHKs - it’s simple he contacts them would you like me to ask him to contact you.

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19 hours ago, piebaps said:

No. Allinson gave a very detailed explanation of the decision making process in Tynwald on 9th March to a question from Edge. She's simply grandstanding.

Read for yourself here https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard/20002020/t210309.pdf from line 1050.

Having read it and balancing up the risk against the potential disruption the decision to open schools seems reasonable - based on the information they had at that time. It's easy to second guess it after the event. 

The answer left a lot of unanswered questions and it’s clear lack of understanding of a school environment with a highly contagious virus (Covid) they assumed it was the Kent variant and they need to understand what they think out of hours staff do in schools and when they arrive at work! They tell staff and students to stay away from schools with NoroVirus for 48 hours but didn’t think fit to make a decision on Covid (Kent) variant?  Sunday 28th Feb Schools are perfectly safe  , 1st March Bemahague closed to one year group, 2nd March all schools remain open but attendance not compulsory 3rd March Schools remained open for vulnerable children whose parents were Keyworkers  (change from previous Policy) Except for Year 7 Bemahague and Years 3 and 4  Ballasalla. 4th March announced Schools to close on 5th March -  4 days of schools open and where are we now - not decisive decisions in my book.

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11 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

The significance of this seems to have gone unnoticed on manx forums. 

The significance is in the detail.

what did the Steam Packet tell their staff? We don’t have the full picture, even with those FOI answers.

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6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The significance is in the detail.

what did the Steam Packet tell their staff? We don’t have the full picture, even with those FOI answers.

I'm not sure what else there is to see.

We have the law/regulation and we have the conditions of exemption from that law/ regulation. The exemption is granted to the individual. Obviously your field, but surely what the Spco told their staff is important but not neccessarily legally significant. 

The information is now on the public domain so people can read it and make up their own minds. My view is that it is a mess.

Question. Do you think the forum is the right place to discuss the detail of this case or should we leave it?

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