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Billy kettlefish
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3 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

The airport has hours in which it operates if airlines cannot keep their arrivals before it closes that is hardly the airports fault.   To keep the airport open after hours must cost a lot of money there will be a lot of staff involved not just the air traffic controllers then the heating, lighting etc.   There is an option to extend the operating hours which would involve employing more staff etc this cost would have to be met by increasing the landing charges in turn increasing the cost of air travel. I wonder how often the airport is asked to remain open after regular hours, who pays for the extra expense ?     Whatever the answer is I cannot see why the airport is getting bad publicity it has always, to my knowledge, been open between the stated operating hours if the airlines cannot keep to their timetables it is totally down to them when passengers get inconvenienced.    

Employing more staff, as others have said, isn't an overnight exercise and then you have the issue of suitably qualified staff at the technical level, and willing candidates at the non-technical level.  As you say, it is not because they can't be arsed  just they cannot extend the hours the airport is open at the drop of a hat (or flight schedule).  

I do wonder, however, if they could look at perhaps closing the airport during lulls in schedules to give a bit of slack. So, say  there are very few flights that arrive/depart between 11 and 3, so it is closed giving the option to open later in the evening without impacting on ATC shifts limitations. I don't know, (and that may be contrary to CAA rules) but it needs a creative look at so that the staff they have are maximised for times when actual flights use the airport. 

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1 minute ago, hissingsid said:

I know where you are coming from but there are possibly some light aircraft in and out at odd times, it is a problem whatever way you look at it.

Agreed, and I know nothing about the technicalities of running an airport, but it just strikes me that if you are staffing an airport with limited staff, you need to make sure that they are using their shift patterns to deal with as many flights as possible. 

Re light aircraft, how do little provincial airstrips get on with ATC ?  They, surely, don't have an air traffic control tower with a full complement of ATCs? 

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29 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

The airport has hours in which it operates if airlines cannot keep their arrivals before it closes that is hardly the airports fault.   To keep the airport open after hours must cost a lot of money there will be a lot of staff involved not just the air traffic controllers then the heating, lighting etc.   There is an option to extend the operating hours which would involve employing more staff etc this cost would have to be met by increasing the landing charges in turn increasing the cost of air travel. I wonder how often the airport is asked to remain open after regular hours, who pays for the extra expense ?     Whatever the answer is I cannot see why the airport is getting bad publicity it has always, to my knowledge, been open between the stated operating hours if the airlines cannot keep to their timetables it is totally down to them when passengers get inconvenienced.    

It is normally the airline who pay for the extension - but I would be extremely surprised if EasyJet pay anything for the regular extension to allow for the late Gatwick to operate.

See page 6:

https://www.airport.im/media/m0fhp5bf/iom-airport-feescharges-from_april_2021-march-2022-v3-003.pdf

 

Edited by madmanxpilot
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1 hour ago, finlo said:

Acquisition of the racket,  wasn't it put out over a bank holiday weekend with tenders to be in within an incredibly short timeframe or some such nonsense?

I don't recall  but the invitation to tender would have been issued by the previous shareholders, not IOMG, surely? You can't ignore the significance of a sea service to the IOM to the peopke of the IOM which may be valued differently by commercial tenderers. 

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54 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said:

It is normally the airline who pay for the extension - but I would be extremely surprised if EasyJet pay anything for the regular extension to allow for the late Gatwick to operate.

See page 6:

https://www.airport.im/media/m0fhp5bf/iom-airport-feescharges-from_april_2021-march-2022-v3-003.pdf

 

That might be an interesting FOI request! 

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1 hour ago, Gladys said:

I do wonder, however, if they could look at perhaps closing the airport during lulls in schedules to give a bit of slack. So, say  there are very few flights that arrive/depart between 11 and 3, so it is closed giving the option to open later in the evening without impacting on ATC shifts limitations. I don't know, (and that may be contrary to CAA rules) but it needs a creative look at so that the staff they have are maximised for times when actual flights use the airport. 

Well that's sort of what they've been doing for shorter periods to give ATC staff a statutory break and, even though they announce it in advance, the airlines just turn up anyway and complain loudly that the airport isn't open.

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11 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well that's sort of what they've been doing for shorter periods to give ATC staff a statutory break and, even though they announce it in advance, the airlines just turn up anyway and complain loudly that the airport isn't open.

Yes, but is it formalised? UK airports are reducing the flights to meet their handling capacity, should we be doing the same?

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8 hours ago, finlo said:

Acquisition of the racket,  wasn't it put out over a bank holiday weekend with tenders to be in within an incredibly short timeframe or some such nonsense?

I seem to recall it was either Christmas or the New Year I think .

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7 hours ago, Gladys said:

Agreed, and I know nothing about the technicalities of running an airport, but it just strikes me that if you are staffing an airport with limited staff, you need to make sure that they are using their shift patterns to deal with as many flights as possible. 

Re light aircraft, how do little provincial airstrips get on with ATC ?  They, surely, don't have an air traffic control tower with a full complement of ATCs? 

I would imagine that there are rules and regulations about whether the airport could be downgraded during certain hours to be run in a lesser capacity. You are correct small airfields range in ATC services from none i.e. done by the pilots themselves, to a lesser degree of control and oversight. I suspect Heathrow on Sea can't be run like that due to declared licensing standards. Someone like Gerromonside would know !

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14 hours ago, asitis said:

...not to mention the hidden Steam Packet report and the outrageous sum of money we blew on the purchase ! Oh and ensuring there were no competitive tenders to even explore.

The Steam Packet is turning into the Bus Vannin of the seas which many said it would. On top of the deal we’re not £100 M into two new ships and £100 M likely into a new terminal in Liverpool. In total over half a billion pounds to run a ferry company that all its done is put up fares making it more difficult for people to get here. 

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32 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

The Steam Packet is turning into the Bus Vannin of the seas which many said it would. On top of the deal we’re not £100 M into two new ships and £100 M likely into a new terminal in Liverpool. In total over half a billion pounds to run a ferry company that all its done is put up fares making it more difficult for people to get here. 

Your sums are a bit out I think.

 

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33 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

The Steam Packet is turning into the Bus Vannin of the seas which many said it would. On top of the deal we’re not £100 M into two new ships and £100 M likely into a new terminal in Liverpool. In total over half a billion pounds to run a ferry company that all its done is put up fares making it more difficult for people to get here. 

You couldn't be more wrong really. The new ship was needed anyway whether owned by IOMG or the vulture capitalists at Banco Espírito and Macquarie.

The IOMSPC wasn't consulted over the new Liverpool Terminal - that was entirely down to DOI who thought they knew best. Peel Group offered to build a terminal, at their own cost,  about half a mile further up the river - but this wasn't good enough for the politicos, crayonistas and assorted chinless wonders within DOI. So I'm not sure how you're laying that one on the IOMSPC? 

If anything IOMSPC is, for now, the only Government-owned enterprise that is actually making a profit (covid period excepted) and relatively well run. 

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