'Britain is not institutionally racist'

[doc.fixit]

But it depends on the definition of both items how they are discussed and dissected in discussions.

[The Voice of Reason]

On 4/24/2021 at 2:30 PM, P.K. said:

Now the UK has sent a big "fuck off" sign to EU workers. 

 

No they haven’t. They have said that EU workers don’t have an inbuilt advantage in coming to work here over people from non EU countries.

Seems fair enough to me. Part of taking back control I would say.

[P.K.]

16 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Seems fair enough to me. Part of taking back control I would say.

Now that's funny...

[N3Wzk0nzum3r]

On 4/7/2021 at 3:18 AM, manxman1980 said:

I honestly think this is a good example of balancing the culture of an organisation, in this case LFC and its ties to the local community, and being able to effectively integrate others (foreign players in this case).  If foreign players were leaving the club because of Gerrard's statements about the club being his and all other scousers does that not create a problem?

Talented people being unsettled immediately by one of the leaders of their employer based simply on the fact that they "are not from around here"?  Interesting that the club finally won a league title after he left with at least two muslim players being key to that.

Does the above mean that LFC were "institutionally racist"?  Probably not.  The same as Gerrard probably isn't racist.  If all the above is true then the issue is that anyone who was not a scouser wasn't being properly integrated into the club and were coming away with the perception that they were not welcome there.

Of course in the case of Diouf he went on to prove he had other issues....

Take the above type of culture and apply it to any organisation and you can start to see where the idea of "institutional racism" comes from.  I can give countless examples from my career where an organisation has been based in and serving a very diverse population and yet that was not reflected in the staff who were all predominately white British.  The organisation tended to advertise new opportunities in places that the local community would not look or through a network of contacts.  This led to the majority of people joining being just like everyone else. 

I am not in favour of quotas but again that is a case of the systems and processes being the problem rather than the organisation or its employees being overtly racist.

Do you think the local community had an equal opportunity to join that organisation?  Or did the recruitment process mean they were overlooked as a source of talent?

It speaks well of you that you can understand there can be two realities existing at the same time, and they can contradict each other. The example is Gerrard. Was he a disaster with Arbeloa and the Senegalese? For sure. Does this means he's a racist? Hell no.

[N3Wzk0nzum3r]

On 4/7/2021 at 3:58 AM, Declan said:

Arbeloa speaks very highly of Gerrard - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/10/west-ham-alvaro-arbeloa-slaven-bilic

Diouf has a whole section on his wiki entitled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Hadji_Diouf#Controversies

It's not surprising Gerrard didn't think highly of him.

Yep. We can all agree the Senegalese was definitely a train wreck. And not exactly a good palyer. All he did was playing some decent games during the 2002 World Cup.

[N3Wzk0nzum3r]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:41 PM, P.K. said:

Personally I think the level of racism in the UK had a lot to do with it.

Plus the fact that for literally decades the Great British Public had been fed lie after lie after lie about the EU without anyone being able to refute their nonsense due to the right wing MSM monopoly.

Agree. The UK has always been deliberately misinformed about the EU for decades. Why do you think Brexit won?

[P.K.]

On 4/28/2021 at 9:34 PM, N3Wzk0nzum3r said:

Agree. The UK has always been deliberately misinformed about the EU for decades. Why do you think Brexit won?

How long have you got...?

[HeliX]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

How long have you got...?

I think I can do it quite quickly, if I may:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britons-are-frantically-googling-what-eu-after-voting-leave-it-a7101856.html

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, HeliX said:

I think I can do it quite quickly, if I may:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britons-are-frantically-googling-what-eu-after-voting-leave-it-a7101856.html

In June 2016 nobody knew what brexit they had voted for.

Was it the ERG's vision? Like Norway plus? Or the brexit the Barclay brother's wanted? Or whatever...

One of the tragedies of the brexit vote is that it's very obvious now that nobody actually knew what they were voting for...

Apart from the fact there were too many brown faced people manning the tills at an Uxbridge supermarket.....

[Max Power]

15 hours ago, P.K. said:

One of the tragedies of the brexit vote is that it's very obvious now that nobody actually knew what they were voting for...

Apart from the fact there were too many brown faced people manning the tills at an Uxbridge supermarket.....

And you believe that 52% of those who voted are racist and had no idea what they were voting for? Do you really think that they believed that leaving Europe would mean less brown skinned people in Britain?

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

And you believe that 52% of those who voted are racist and had no idea what they were voting for? Do you really think that they believed that leaving Europe would mean less brown skinned people in Britain?

I didn't make the up the "Apart from the fact there were too many brown faced people manning the tills at an Uxbridge supermarket".

It's from James O'Briens book and is from one of his callers at LBC. It's highly possible that the recording is still around somewhere. James then asked him from which EU country he thought they had come from? The caller's name is Sean and if you find the interview please send me the link. Thanks.

I don't believe 52% of those who voted Leave are racist and have never said I did.

Apparently Brexit is a big topic in the European press but over here we get very little.

However I have noticed that when brexiteers are put under pressure they ask "Do you think Leavers are stupid?" no doubt hoping to close the whole exchange down.

[Max Power]

3 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I didn't make the up the "Apart from the fact there were too many brown faced people manning the tills at an Uxbridge supermarket".

It's from James O'Briens book and is from one of his callers at LBC. It's highly possible that the recording is still around somewhere. James then asked him from which EU country he thought they had come from? The caller's name is Sean and if you find the interview please send me the link. Thanks.

I don't believe 52% of those who voted Leave are racist and have never said I did.

Apparently Brexit is a big topic in the European press but over here we get very little.

However I have noticed that when brexiteers are put under pressure they ask "Do you think Leavers are stupid?" no doubt hoping to close the whole exchange down.

Yes, you're right to a certain extent, although there are quite intelligent people on both sides of the Brexit argument. It's just as well I didn't get a vote, I still haven't made my mind up! 

[P.K.]

23 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Yes, you're right to a certain extent, although there are quite intelligent people on both sides of the Brexit argument. It's just as well I didn't get a vote, I still haven't made my mind up! 

O'Brien ends the Brexit chapter of his book with:

"I still don't know what they think they won..."

[manxman1980]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:34 PM, Max Power said:

Yes, you're right to a certain extent, although there are quite intelligent people on both sides of the Brexit argument. It's just as well I didn't get a vote, I still haven't made my mind up! 

Let's face it not everyone who voted for Brexit was or is stupid.  

There were intelligent people who voted for it and it increasingly looks like they are the ones who are going to benefit the most from it.

Some of the others in favour had been conditioned by the media and UK Government over many, many years that the EEC, EU were bad.  BoJo being a good example of this with the lies he got published in his column before getting sacked.

Others will have had concerns over immigration and changes in British culture.  Those like the caller to LBC just did not fully understand that the number of "brown faces" in his local supermarket was not really anything to do with the EU (it having a predominately white European population).  I do wonder how he will have reacted to the trade talks that have taken place this week with India in which Indian students will be able to travel to the UK to study and work for up to two years on a more relaxed Visa...

We now have to live with the outcome of Brexit which has had an unfortunate side effect of empowering racists and making them more vocal.

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

Let's face it not everyone who voted for Brexit was or is stupid.  

There were intelligent people who voted for it and it increasingly looks like they are the ones who are going to benefit the most from it.

Some of the others in favour had been conditioned by the media and UK Government over many, many years that the EEC, EU were bad.  BoJo being a good example of this with the lies he got published in his column before getting sacked.

Others will have had concerns over immigration and changes in British culture.  Those like the caller to LBC just did not fully understand that the number of "brown faces" in his local supermarket was not really anything to do with the EU (it having a predominately white European population).  I do wonder how he will have reacted to the trade talks that have taken place this week with India in which Indian students will be able to travel to the UK to study and work for up to two years on a more relaxed Visa...

We now have to live with the outcome of Brexit which has had an unfortunate side effect of empowering racists and making them more vocal.

Spot on, but I'm still hopeful that being out of the EU will encourage us eventually to become more self reliant, particularly with regard to industry. I feel that we have allowed European industries to become strong in the belief that we can't compete, with detrimental consequences for British society. 

I really don't mind others settling here, but I would like them to have some loyalty to the place. I'm not a believer in multi culturism, but rather integration.