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8 hours ago, piebaps said:

As usual 2112 is talking crap. The BI council will mean that HQ will have met her. She's lost her job so HQ is simply sending her the perfunctory greeting. End of story.

Exactly that’s the way things are. Remember all the tributes when Thatcher died. She was a terrible evil woman but that’s protocol. ( I’m not comparing Arleen to Thatcher in any way you must understand)

Edited by The Voice of Reason
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P.S. in relation to the thread title - no thanks

As usual 2112 is talking crap. The BI council will mean that HQ will have met her. She's lost her job so HQ is simply sending her the perfunctory greeting. End of story. Modern media however seem

Serious question what does consent mean?  A super majority? At what level? People will vote against and lose. What will suddenly make their loss a signal of their consent? The decisiveness of a r

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Quayle versus Manx Labour Party - this reminds me of the old adage of two bald men fighting over a comb. Both are irrelevant; he’s an oaf and they are fools.

Arlene meanwhile remains what she always has been; a homophobic, sectarian, religious fundamentalist. And as such can eff right off...taking her party of equally odious creatures with her, all being well.

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5 hours ago, pongo said:

Some of her Sinn Fein counterparts are also the victims of terrorism.

John Finucane MP for example. Just one of many examples. His father, also a lawyer, murdered by so called "loyalists".

And many on the DUP side also with connections to "loyalism".

Two wrongs don't make a right, the whole thing is sick tribalism, I've no idea where it will all end.

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2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Exactly that’s the way things are. Remember all the tributes when Thatcher died. She was a terrible evil woman but that’s protocol. ( I’m not comparing Arleen to Thatcher in any way you must understand)

HRH The Chief Minister didn’t need to make his tribute but chose to, so it made both him and the IOM important, and world leaders on the international stage. He loves to make tributise, as when he led the tributes to Prince Philip on his death 

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10 hours ago, 2112 said:

HRH The Chief Minister didn’t need to make his tribute but chose to, so it made both him and the IOM important, and world leaders on the international stage. He loves to make tributise, as when he led the tributes to Prince Philip on his death 

Who did Howard Quayle lead in his tribute to Prince Philip?

Edited by The Voice of Reason
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10 hours ago, 2112 said:

HRH The Chief Minister didn’t need to make his tribute but chose to, so it made both him and the IOM important, and world leaders on the international stage. He loves to make tributise, as when he led the tributes to Prince Philip on his death 

Literally, what ARE you going on about?

You're getting more ridiculous (which is quite some going in fairness to you).

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11 hours ago, Max Power said:

Two wrongs don't make a right, the whole thing is sick tribalism, I've no idea where it will all end.

With normal democratic politics - government and policing by consent. But it's surely going to be a gradual process like in South Africa.

Bit by bit it has become less tribal in general. Except in small, mostly relatively poor, enclaves of cultural anxiety. And it's generational.

The terrible inequality and oppression of civil rights which created the troubles is a thing of the last. The traditions which allowed that need to be gone.

Edited by pongo
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30 minutes ago, pongo said:

With normal democratic politics - government and policing by consent. But it's surely going to be a gradual process like in South Africa.

Bit by bit it has become less tribal in general. Except in small, mostly relatively poor, enclaves of cultural anxiety. And it's generational.

The terrible inequality and oppression of civil rights which created the troubles is a thing of the last. The traditions which allowed that need to be gone.

Yes, a lot of it does boil down to fear and anxiety. My family migrated from the south to the north shortly after the creation of the Free State, mainly because of the Catholic church's influence in government and over the population. They all remained Loyalist but had many Catholic close friends. It has been the oppression of Catholics as you say, which was the extreme manifestation of Loyalism  which was the root of the troubles. Britain should have clamped down heavily on having a two tier society within its borders from the start. 

Personally, I believe that Ireland will be united relatively soon, if the Irish government can handle the lunatics.   

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2 hours ago, Max Power said:

Personally, I believe that Ireland will be united relatively soon, if the Irish government can handle the lunatics.   

I suspect that the very last thing the government (any government) in Dublin wants is a united Ireland precisely because of the lunatics…of whatever stripe.

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7 hours ago, Max Power said:

Yes, a lot of it does boil down to fear and anxiety. My family migrated from the south to the north shortly after the creation of the Free State, mainly because of the Catholic church's influence in government and over the population. They all remained Loyalist but had many Catholic close friends. It has been the oppression of Catholics as you say, which was the extreme manifestation of Loyalism  which was the root of the troubles. Britain should have clamped down heavily on having a two tier society within its borders from the start. 

Personally, I believe that Ireland will be united relatively soon, if the Irish government can handle the lunatics.   

There are lunatics on both sides, and as Gerry Adams, ex Leader Sinn Fein said a few years ago, the IRA haven’t gone away. 

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1 hour ago, 2112 said:

 as Gerry Adams, ex Leader Sinn Fein said a few years ago, the IRA haven’t gone away. 

For the specific audience that day it would likely have seemed like a message of reassurance and comfort. Rather than a threat to the wider community. As mad as that might seem.

ETA: better than people switching to some other faction. So they have to try to hold it together.

It's incredible how much has changed since the 90s.

2 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

I would love to see a united, independant Ireland. There should never have been partition in the first place.

It has to be by consent though. Or else it won't work.

Edited by pongo
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Posted (edited)

Serious question what does consent mean?  A super majority? At what level? People will vote against and lose. What will suddenly make their loss a signal of their consent?

The decisiveness of a referendum will likely leave a lot of bitterness for sections of the losing community. And the no-never-we'll-use-violence-to-protect-our-community mob aren't likely to accept any vote they see as destroying the essence of their history. 

It's a problem far bigger than my limited horizons and goodness knows how it might end up. The status quo is only just holding together but the ground and demographics also keep shifting. Peace is precious. Reminding all sides of that fact is important. 

Edited by Chinahand
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