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Liberalism, what went wrong?


Max Power
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Multiple academics and journalists have been fired for their private opinions on anything from the use of the n-word to issues of transexuality.  A Chinese language teacher was recently disciplined for encouraging his students to use the Chinese equivelent of erm 那个 which sounds similar to the n-word. Cancel culture exists and if you work in certain environments you are not allowed to hold certain opinions.

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1 minute ago, Chinahand said:

Multiple academics and journalists have been fired for their private opinions on anything from the use of the n-word to issues of transexuality.  A Chinese language teacher was recently disciplined for encouraging his students to use the Chinese equivelent of erm 那个 which sounds similar to the n-word. Cancel culture exists and if you work in certain environments you are not allowed to hold certain opinions.

If they were private opinions how did anyone know about them? They must've been expressed either publicly or to other people at the organisation. Which, again, I would expect to lose my job for if I was being racist / sexist / something-phobic. 

Consequences aren't cancel culture. And racism isn't an opinion. 

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11 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Multiple academics and journalists have been fired for their private opinions on anything from the use of the n-word to issues of transexuality.  A Chinese language teacher was recently disciplined for encouraging his students to use the Chinese equivelent of erm 那个 which sounds similar to the n-word. Cancel culture exists and if you work in certain environments you are not allowed to hold certain opinions.

There are a number of issues here, though, aren’t there China? 

First, they haven’t kept their private opinions private, have they? They’ve tweeted, been video cammed at a meeting, had their computer or e-mails hacked. It’s a different world. Hard to keep your private opinions private.

And the firing, even of tenured academics, isn’t new. In the 1960’s there was a phase of Marxists in the new glass and steel universities being hounded out. I remember one in Lancaster in 1969.  We are just at another extreme of the pendulum swing. They were guilty of promoting equality, anti racism, anti homophobia, inclusion. The very things we now consider main stream.

And “transsexualism”? Really? 

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A New York Time's journalist took a student group to South America, he was asked if it was ok to use the n-word in any circumstances, by a person using the N-word, he discussed the issues with them also using the word and was fired for it.

The disciplining of the Chinese language teacher for explaining about Chinese verbal mannerisms.  This is nothing to do with racism.  Political madness.

 

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38 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

A New York Time's journalist took a student group to South America, he was asked if it was ok to use the n-word in any circumstances, by a person using the N-word, he discussed the issues with them also using the word and was fired for it.

The disciplining of the Chinese language teacher for explaining about Chinese verbal mannerisms.  This is nothing to do with racism.  Political madness.

 

"Mr. McNeil apologized and said in a statement, “Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended. I now realize that it cannot. It is deeply offensive and hurtful.”"

"“What’s happened to me has been called a ‘witch hunt,’” he wrote. “It isn’t. It’s a series of misunderstandings and blunders. I may be the only living Times reporter who has actually covered a witch hunt — in Zimbabwe in 1997. They inevitably end worse for the accused. I’m at least getting my say.”"

Even the guy you're offering as an example doesn't think he's an example of cancel culture.

 

"The disciplining of the Chinese language teacher for explaining about Chinese verbal mannerisms."
Are you suggesting the teacher didn't know what they were doing when deliberately selecting a word that sounded like a racial slur? Of course they did. And they could, and should, have chosen any number of other examples that didn't.

As for political madness, given the Prime Minister we currently have in the UK, and the President we've just gotten rid of in America - and their respective histories of racist remarks, I don't think politics has much to do with it.

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Posted (edited)

Its quite remarkable that many of those who complain the most about cancel culture also happen to be massive assholes. I have no idea why that might be.

 

Edited by TheTeapot
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I personally don't think anything has actually gone wrong with liberalism.

I'm sure we could all write page after page on how we have arrived where we currently are.

Without lowering the level of debate it has become increasingly clear to me that one of the main issues is that it is a whole lot easier to believe a simple lie than it ever will be to rationalise a complex truth.

Thus endeth the lesson...

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12 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Its quite remarkable that many of those who complain the most about cancel culture also happen to be massive assholes. I have no idea why that might be.

 

Piers Morgan...   How this guy has not been cancelled is beyond me!  Sure he is not on GMB anymore but that was as a result of him walking out after getting upset at the weatherman!  He still has a platform to spout his BS whilst complaining about being cancelled!

"Woke" is simply the new name for "politically correct".

 

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17 hours ago, Max Power said:

It's unlikely that I as a pleb, would have first hand experience of being 'cancelled' or hung out to dry for my opinions. It doesn't prevent me from being concerned or having an opinion on what is happening. I would be surprised if there were not many people outside of the public eye who would be a high profile victim, just yet. What we all have first hand knowledge of is how history is being rewritten and lies being told by supposed academics to create a false history to suit far left wing agendas.  

I mean this, specifically.

'You can't even apologise for a slip of the tongue or an unwise choice of words, the liberals have deemed that that slip betrays your true feelings and opinions.'

Have you ever seen this happen to you or anyone you know? 'Liberals', for lack of a better term, are very forgiving of those who are actually sorry.

And, no, screaming 'OH I'M SORRY I GUESS YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING ANYMORE CAN YOU' is not an apology.

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I think that the "Culture Wars", "Woke" and "Cancel Culture" are all constructs of the Populist Right who are busy creating enemies where there are none.  That is then reflected through the media such as the Daily Mail and is then picked up by the broadcast news and also seeps into social media and YouTube.  

This creates the impression that the normal person on the street is under attack from the Left and "Liberals".

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53 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I think that the "Culture Wars", "Woke" and "Cancel Culture" are all constructs of the Populist Right who are busy creating enemies where there are none.  That is then reflected through the media such as the Daily Mail and is then picked up by the broadcast news and also seeps into social media and YouTube.  

This creates the impression that the normal person on the street is under attack from the Left and "Liberals".

I don't think that is right at all, and sadly is rather lazy thinking I didn't used to associate with you.

Many figures who are basically left of centre say there is something significant going on concerning intolerance on the left -examples include Stephen Pinker, Jerry Coyne, John McWhorter, Bari Weiss, Joseph Henrich, Jonathan Haidt, Richard Dawkins, Germaine Greer, JK Rowling.  To describe these people as members of the Populist Right, or associate them with the view point of the Daily Mail is to seriously miss a large part of the picture.

I like the simplification than both the Alt-Right and the Ctl-Left are significantly impacting political discourse especially in the US.  The UK is less affected, but for people to associate Richard Dawkins, Germaine Greer and JK Rowling with the forces of reaction really haven't listened to what they say.  They are basically mainstream centre left in their views - or the mainstream centre left that existed up to recently.  The woke outrage these figures now experience on Twitter or when they attempt to articulate their views on University campuses is new, different and in my view disturbing and a clear symptom of ideological purity being given too much importance than reasonable debate.

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Posted (edited)

You lost me at JK Rowling and Richard Dawkins as 'left of centre'.

JK Rowling, known transphobe, is not 'left of centre'.

Richard Dawkins, currently campaigning to abort all people with Down's Syndrome, is not 'left of centre'.

I'm aware the overton window has shifted to the right A LOT but bigotry is never going to be left wing.

My view is that what used to be acceptable levels of bigotry is now, rightly, getting called out and those who concerned themselves 'doing enough' throw a shit fit at the idea they could be doing anything wrong.

Absolutely no different to the 'well, gollywogs USED to be fine' rhetoric my parents spout.

Edited by jichaelmosem
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34 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

The woke outrage these figures now experience on Twitter or when they attempt to articulate their views on University campuses is new, different and in my view disturbing and a clear symptom of ideological purity being given too much importance than reasonable debate.

The whole thing is choreographed like a dance or a street protest. And they choose to be part of it. It's all theatre.

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Still not seen an example of someone being cancelled.

 

I'll help people out though - there actually is a cancel culture. You can see it in the drag community, strangely enough. They're very quick to boycott someone based on missed nuance or mis-speaking.

But that's the thing, you can only be cancelled by your own fans. And only if you're in a role that relies on the public buying tickets/books/whatever. The idea that "the left" is out cancelling people all over the place is patent nonsense.

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