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NHS app data for Manx residents


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6 hours ago, Cambon said:

Amazing! Completely pathetic! Hard copy posted, it will be for me! 

The announcement states you will be able to either request a copy via the NHS call centre, or use the Covid Pass service to request a copy to be sent by email or download one.

What do you mean by "Hard copy posted, it will be for me!" ?

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25 minutes ago, manx-person said:

The announcement states you will be able to either request a copy via the NHS call centre, or use the Covid Pass service to request a copy to be sent by email or download one.

What do you mean by "Hard copy posted, it will be for me!" ?

Alternatively, a paper copy vaccination certificate can be obtained via the UK NHS customer contact centre, which will be available to callers from the Isle of Man on a Freephone number to be announced before the service goes live.

Manx residents using this service will be able to request a paper certificate of their vaccination status - an NHS COVID post vaccination letter - to be sent through the post, and should receive it within five working days. The UK NHS Freephone call centre option is for those who are unable to access the digital pass for urgent travel.

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4 minutes ago, emesde said:

Alternatively, a paper copy vaccination certificate can be obtained via the UK NHS customer contact centre, which will be available to callers from the Isle of Man on a Freephone number to be announced before the service goes live.

Manx residents using this service will be able to request a paper certificate of their vaccination status - an NHS COVID post vaccination letter - to be sent through the post, and should receive it within five working days. The UK NHS Freephone call centre option is for those who are unable to access the digital pass for urgent travel.

So why is that 'completely pathetic' ? Surely a choice of a paper or a digital version is the most inclusive way to provide the service ?

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@manx-person I don’t see what s.255 has to do with anything. That was engaged years ago in relation to the NHS App. All my GP information is already there. It’s the same consents and protocols for the web site to receive the Pinnacle data to the web site as the App. Same data base. 

Let’s be clear, Manx temporary solution, silly, embarrassing and hit and miss acceptable, Manx Care letter, data upload to NHS, we’ve known about the need for it for 7 months.

IoMG advertised for expressions of interest for a QR code process for this way back in March. The rest of the British Islands have bar codes or QR codes. We were told it would be on the NHS App by 2+2 border opening date ( end June ), then there has been delay after delay, blamed on the UK NHS, Wales, legal issues. I suspect it’s been issues with the Manx data, but Ashie won’t admit.

Ill survive and cope with the website and 119 printed certificate. I should be able to travel. But I’ve got a smart phone, set up for facial recognition sign in on the App, why should I have to carry paper or sign in to a web site.  It’s not ergonomically efficient.

It is pathetic.

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34 minutes ago, John Wright said:

@manx-person I don’t see what s.255 has to do with anything. That was engaged years ago in relation to the NHS App. All my GP information is already there. It’s the same consents and protocols for the web site to receive the Pinnacle data to the web site as the App. Same data base. 

Let’s be clear, Manx temporary solution, silly, embarrassing and hit and miss acceptable, Manx Care letter, data upload to NHS, we’ve known about the need for it for 7 months.

IoMG advertised for expressions of interest for a QR code process for this way back in March. The rest of the British Islands have bar codes or QR codes. We were told it would be on the NHS App by 2+2 border opening date ( end June ), then there has been delay after delay, blamed on the UK NHS, Wales, legal issues. I suspect it’s been issues with the Manx data, but Ashie won’t admit.

. I should be able to travel. But I’ve got a smart phone, set up for facial recognition sign in on the App, why should I have to carry paper or sign in to a web site.  It’s not ergonomically efficient.

It is pathetic.

s255 -  I note your comment.

Clearly any discussions with the UK would be confidential, but my guess it is unlikely that those senior civil servants involved in this matter would misrepresent the position to the Health minister.

In relation to the NHS App and Wales, please note - https://gov.wales/get-nhs-covid-pass-show-your-vaccination-status-travel that the NHS App is not available to Welsh residents.
The mechanism for Welsh to obtain the NHS Covid pass is using the NHS Covid pass service, or by telephone - the same as the recent Manx press release - https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/access-to-nhs-covid-pass-in-the-next-fortnight/ 

The data to support the Covid Pass is not in the same database as the GP Information. GP records for each GP practice are separate, each GP practice is their own controller for GDPR purposes.
Where an individual has received a vaccine in the IOM, or (in fact a UK centre) - details of the vaccine have and continue to be sent to the GP's practice for the patient (if they are registered with a GP) for them to record on the GP's patient record system. Further information here in relation to the GP data was published here some years ago- https://www.gov.im/media/1218291/public_information_in_relation_to_upgrading_the_gp_patient_it_system.pdf

There is a separate record of vaccines maintained as part of the NHS Covid Pass  service - https://www.nhsx.nhs.uk/covid-19-response/covid-19-vaccination-status-service/ 
The data specification for the vaccine data is here - https://digital.nhs.uk/developer/api-catalogue/vaccination
By submitting the Manx data to the NHS Covid Pass service this would allow the production of a vaccine certificate where for example an individual has received one dose of the vaccine in the UK and the other in the UK (e.g. a Uni student) to obtain a Covid Pass, and will allow the Isle of Man to 'stand on the shoulders' of any future development 

Those who don't want their Isle of Man record of vaccines sent to the vaccine database for the purpose of getting a vaccine passport can opt out - details of the processing are here - https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/statutory-boards/manx-care/covid-19-vaccination-certificate-privacy-statement

I would imagine that if there was a 'data problem' as you speculate then that would have been surfaced by the process to produce the temporary letters - I am not aware of any reports of data errors in the production of these letters - are you?

In respect of your comment "Ill survive and cope with the website and 119 printed certificate"  clearly how you use the services will be up to you- you will be able to also download a copy of your Covid Pass as a PDF to enable you access to your vaccine proof for use at borders. The advantage of this is that no data connection will be required to access the certificate (you can store it on your device), you can of course if required then email this PDF to third parties who can use this to validate your vaccination status prior to for example travel, or access to a festival. 

There are  open source applications such as https://github.com/nhsx/covid-pass-verifier 

For those with a technological interest details of how the NHS Covid pass will work in terms of implementation/design( or more correctly a compliant EHC) is explained here - https://github.com/ehn-dcc-development/hcert-spec

All of the above information has been sourced from the publicly available information referred to in the links, I don't think I have expressed any opinions, just facts - but for the avoidance of doubt any opinions (if any) expressed are my own personal opinions.

Is it OK to post facts on Manx Forums, or is this forum just for opinions - I am never sure 🙂 

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46 minutes ago, manx-person said:

s255 -  I note your comment.

1. Clearly any discussions with the UK would be confidential, but my guess it is unlikely that those senior civil servants involved in this matter would misrepresent the position to the Health minister.

2. In relation to the NHS App and Wales, please note - https://gov.wales/get-nhs-covid-pass-show-your-vaccination-status-travel that the NHS App is not available to Welsh residents.


The mechanism for Welsh to obtain the NHS Covid pass is using the NHS Covid pass service, or by telephone - the same as the recent Manx press release - https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/access-to-nhs-covid-pass-in-the-next-fortnight/ 

3. The data to support the Covid Pass is not in the same database as the GP Information. GP records for each GP practice are separate, each GP practice is their own controller for GDPR purposes.


4. Where an individual has received a vaccine in the IOM, or (in fact a UK centre) - details of the vaccine have and continue to be sent to the GP's practice for the patient (if they are registered with a GP) for them to record on the GP's patient record system. Further information here in relation to the GP data was published here some years ago- https://www.gov.im/media/1218291/public_information_in_relation_to_upgrading_the_gp_patient_it_system.pdf

5. There is a separate record of vaccines maintained as part of the NHS Covid Pass  service - https://www.nhsx.nhs.uk/covid-19-response/covid-19-vaccination-status-service/ 
The data specification for the vaccine data is here - https://digital.nhs.uk/developer/api-catalogue/vaccination
By submitting the Manx data to the NHS Covid Pass service this would allow the production of a vaccine certificate where for example an individual has received one dose of the vaccine in the UK and the other in the UK (e.g. a Uni student) to obtain a Covid Pass, and will allow the Isle of Man to 'stand on the shoulders' of any future development 

6. Those who don't want their Isle of Man record of vaccines sent to the vaccine database for the purpose of getting a vaccine passport can opt out - details of the processing are here - https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/statutory-boards/manx-care/covid-19-vaccination-certificate-privacy-statement

7. I would imagine that if there was a 'data problem' as you speculate then that would have been surfaced by the process to produce the temporary letters - I am not aware of any reports of data errors in the production of these letters - are you?

8. In respect of your comment "Ill survive and cope with the website and 119 printed certificate"  clearly how you use the services will be up to you- you will be able to also download a copy of your Covid Pass as a PDF to enable you access to your vaccine proof for use at borders. The advantage of this is that no data connection will be required to access the certificate (you can store it on your device), you can of course if required then email this PDF to third parties who can use this to validate your vaccination status prior to for example travel, or access to a festival. 

There are  open source applications such as https://github.com/nhsx/covid-pass-verifier 

For those with a technological interest details of how the NHS Covid pass will work in terms of implementation/design( or more correctly a compliant EHC) is explained here - https://github.com/ehn-dcc-development/hcert-spec

9. All of the above information has been sourced from the publicly available information referred to in the links, I don't think I have expressed any opinions, just facts - but for the avoidance of doubt any opinions (if any) expressed are my own personal opinions.

Is it OK to post facts on Manx Forums, or is this forum just for opinions - I am never sure 🙂 

1. Which is not to say that the Health minister wouldn’t misrepresent the position. Accidentally or deliberately. He’s got form.

2. wasn’t aware the App didn’t work for Welsh residents jabbed in Wales.

3. & 4.  I was aware and indeed have posted the same here, previously.

5. Yes, understand that. But it doesn’t explain why the information required to generate the pass is on the web site data base but can’t be accessed by the app to generate it on the app..

6. I’m happy for my data to be sent. Again it doesn’t explain why the data to generate the pass will be on the web site but not operationally accessible to do so  on the App.

7. Yes, it’s speculation. What explanation do you have for the App not being able to generate the pass, but the Website and 119, via the website  being able to do so?

8. I’m sufficiently technically savvy to know to do all those things. And even with the App QR I’d have done a screen shot and a .pdf attached to an e-mail to me, and drop box or cloud, and/or paper as back up. But thanks. It’s still skirting around the real question which is why it’s not on the app. It also begs the question that why, if there is an open access app, expressions of interest were sought. Does the open access stuff satisfy WHO, EU or NHS standards?  Clearly in March IOM was thinking of developing its own thing, then changed to NHS by June, but NHS has only partially delivered. 

9. Facts are always welcome. Indeed we’ve been chasing Josem to provide them in the Election Douglas East sub forum. Without success.

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12 minutes ago, John Wright said:

1. Which is not to say that the Health minister wouldn’t misrepresent the position. Accidentally or deliberately. He’s got form.

2. wasn’t aware the App didn’t work for Welsh residents jabbed in Wales.

3. & 4.  I was aware and indeed have posted the same here, previously.

5. Yes, understand that. But it doesn’t explain why it’s on the web site data base but can’t be accessed via the app.

6. I’m happy for my data to be sent. Again it doesn’t explain why the data to generate the pass will be on the web site but not on the App.

7. Yes, it’s speculation. What explanation do you have for the App not being able to generate the pass, but the Website and call centre, via the website  being able to do so.

8. I’m sufficiently technically savvy to know to do all those things. And even with the App QR I’d have done a screen shot and a .pdf as back up. But thanks. It’s still skirting around the real question which is why it’s not on the app. It also begs the question that why, if there is an open access app, expressions of interest were sought. Does the open access stuff satisfy WHO, EU or NHS standards?  Clearly I’m March IOM was thinking of developing its own thing, then changed to NHS, but NHS has only partially delivered. 

9. Facts are always welcome. Indeed we’ve been chasing Josem to provide them in the Election Douglas East sub forum. Without success.

1. I am not aware of any misrepresentation

5. Please see (2)

6. Noted but consent is apparently not the basis of processing - also please see (5)

7. I would speculate that the reason is the same as it is not available in Wales.

8. See https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2021-releases/2021-08-19-012/ - the link the github repository enables anyone to verify an NHS Covid Pass.

The 'real question?' Surely the question(s) that matter are:

(a) Q Can I have a certificate on my phone to support my travel ? A Yes by using the NHS Covid Pass Web service and downloading one
 (b) Q Can i have a piece of paper to support my travel as I am not tech savvy ?  A Yes you can request a paper certificate

 

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9 minutes ago, manx-person said:

1. I am not aware of any misrepresentation

5. Please see (2)

6. Noted but consent is apparently not the basis of processing - also please see (5)

7. I would speculate that the reason is the same as it is not available in Wales.

8. See https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2021-releases/2021-08-19-012/ - the link the github repository enables anyone to verify an NHS Covid Pass.

The 'real question?' Surely the question(s) that matter are:

(a) Q Can I have a certificate on my phone to support my travel ? A Yes by using the NHS Covid Pass Web service and downloading one
 (b) Q Can i have a piece of paper to support my travel as I am not tech savvy ?  A Yes you can request a paper certificate

 

So you can’t actually explain why it won’t be available on the app.

That you’ve  not become aware of the multiple untruths communicated by Ashford, deliberately, or inadvertently, or by rashly making things up when he didn’t know, or understand his briefing is amazing.

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44 minutes ago, John Wright said:

So you can’t actually explain why it won’t be available on the app.

That you’ve  not become aware of the multiple untruths communicated by Ashford, deliberately, or inadvertently, or by rashly making things up when he didn’t know, or understand his briefing is amazing.

Oh well.
Yes - I don't take much interest in the briefings, but I am unaware of any untruths.
If I am going to be subject to this kind of criticism of my honesty and integrity that is implied in the second paragraph then it's time to stop posting on the subject.

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2 hours ago, manx-person said:

In relation to the NHS App and Wales, please note - https://gov.wales/get-nhs-covid-pass-show-your-vaccination-status-travel that the NHS App is not available to Welsh residents.
The mechanism for Welsh to obtain the NHS Covid pass is using the NHS Covid pass service, or by telephone - the same as the recent Manx press release - https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/access-to-nhs-covid-pass-in-the-next-fortnight/ 

Except that they've had this available since 25 June and we might get it in a couple of weeks time if that isn't broken like other previous promises.  It's not just that we don't have a government that is capable of doing anything other than copying England, whether it's appropriate or not; it's that even where it is appropriate - such as producing something internationally acceptable - they can't even manage that in a reasonable time.

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