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Stop the felling of the St Marks Elms


Amadeus
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I note that the Petition with a lot of support is to save the trees, though I am not sure what the exact purpose of today's demonstration is, but it highly likely that anyone at the demonstration has signed the petition. How will this work? The felling of the trees has been approved through a lawful process. The lawful process was arrived at through democratic means, ie approved by Tynwald, and operated by a Department of the Government. The process has been completed. For the petition (and possibly the demonstration) to be successful then the democratic process must give way to mob rule, or a form of anarchy and indeed bullying. The imperative for the protest now must surely to prevent any more of this or it will be government by the mass protest aided by our spineless politicians.

The forthcoming general election and local elections to some degree give everyone the chance to offer their vote to candidates that will commit to overhauling the whole planning process, eg the planning rules, the green areas zoned for development, the lack of brownfield development, etc. No commitment - no vote. Unless of course this is another 15 minute social media wonder where everyone gets wound up then forgets about it when the next social media headline hits. Or maybe this time the candidates for MHK will be hit hard with the thought there might be up to 28,000 votes on the line. Who knows but it will be interesting to see if this surge of voter energy will play out right through to the election on the topic of the countryside and its plundering.

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2 minutes ago, Trackman said:

I note that the Petition with a lot of support is to save the trees, though I am not sure what the exact purpose of today's demonstration is, but it highly likely that anyone at the demonstration has signed the petition. How will this work? The felling of the trees has been approved through a lawful process. The lawful process was arrived at through democratic means, ie approved by Tynwald, and operated by a Department of the Government. The process has been completed. For the petition (and possibly the demonstration) to be successful then the democratic process must give way to mob rule, or a form of anarchy and indeed bullying. The imperative for the protest now must surely to prevent any more of this or it will be government by the mass protest aided by our spineless politicians.

The forthcoming general election and local elections to some degree give everyone the chance to offer their vote to candidates that will commit to overhauling the whole planning process, eg the planning rules, the green areas zoned for development, the lack of brownfield development, etc. No commitment - no vote. Unless of course this is another 15 minute social media wonder where everyone gets wound up then forgets about it when the next social media headline hits. Or maybe this time the candidates for MHK will be hit hard with the thought there might be up to 28,000 votes on the line. Who knows but it will be interesting to see if this surge of voter energy will play out right through to the election on the topic of the countryside and its plundering.

You raise some very good points. Sadly a few MF idiots will be on to denigrate you, demean you and to troll your every post that you make.

In the adjacent isle, the use of online petitions, if they reach 100,000+ signatures, they debate the issue in the House of Commons. Bearing in mind our population is up to 85,000 so will Tynpotwald debate this issue? On past experiences they have either caved in totally or totally ignored. 
 

You are right in that it has been raised to an election issue, but at the same time by it’s slavish devotion to climate change, and the Professor Curran’s report, there isn’t much room to manoeuvre. 

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I'd imagine one or two MHKs will be watching this with extreme interest with an election looming and if the result that the Manx Gas protests obtained with a far lower public involvement are anything to go by, I'd suggest there may be a review of this decision shortly.

It's rare for the Manx public to mobilise to this degree over any issue and if @ 1/3rd of the population have indeed signed this petition it will be very difficult for our politicos to ignore it, certainly it will be at electoral peril for a couple of them.

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42 minutes ago, Trackman said:

I note that the Petition with a lot of support is to save the trees, though I am not sure what the exact purpose of today's demonstration is, but it highly likely that anyone at the demonstration has signed the petition. How will this work? The felling of the trees has been approved through a lawful process. The lawful process was arrived at through democratic means, ie approved by Tynwald, and operated by a Department of the Government. The process has been completed. For the petition (and possibly the demonstration) to be successful then the democratic process must give way to mob rule, or a form of anarchy and indeed bullying. The imperative for the protest now must surely to prevent any more of this or it will be government by the mass protest aided by our spineless politicians.

Well if I was the land owner I’d have chopped the trees down as soon as the kick off started, you have permission, why wait for a demonstration and the decision to be halted/appealed/reversed? That way the blame lays firmly with the the department who granted the decision in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I'd imagine one or two MHKs will be watching this with extreme interest with an election looming and if the result that the Manx Gas protests obtained with a far lower public involvement are anything to go by, I'd suggest there may be a review of this decision shortly.

It's rare for the Manx public to mobilise to this degree over any issue and if @ 1/3rd of the population have indeed signed this petition it will be very difficult for our politicos to ignore it, certainly it will be at electoral peril for a couple of them.

Thank you 2112 for the troll warning. Being surrounded by idiots is nothing new - duck's back and water spring to mind.

I would have thought that reviewing the decision is fraught with danger and will open a proper can of worms. It might even mean that applications are made to overturn previous decisions made. That is provided there is a way through the legislation that the decision can be reviewed. Is the Minister going to petition the Court to overturn a decision of his own committee? This will be fun to watch.

I am in no way into the eco-woke brigade but I love a bit of nature. Wouldn't it cause excitement at the general election if the Manx Green Party had two candidates in each constituency this year campaigning on the issues raised by the Elm tree kerfuffle? This would scare the hell out the of the sitting members and might well be a catalyst for change in how the countryside is treated. I can just see the sitting members spouting insincere platitudes as they are transfixed in the headlights. But hey, this is Manx politics we are talking about. Farm a granny will likely be order of the day.

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Minister Boot has just announced that he wants to look at other available options, that also serves the purpose of making him look good and Perkins look a twat. If Tynwald seats are perceived as being on the line, who knows what rabbits may be pulled from the hat?

There were a number of changes pushed through re. planning applications in the last 12 months or so of Mr Boot's tenure, some would say mainly aimed at making objection more difficult, like having to reside within 25 metres of the subject in question in order to object to any application? Perhaps this incident will shine the light onto the structure of planning matters and conditions and lead to a little more transparency and clarity.

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20 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Well if I was the land owner I’d have chopped the trees down as soon as the kick off started, you have permission, why wait for a demonstration and the decision to be halted/appealed/reversed? That way the blame lays firmly with the the department who granted the decision in the first place.

The Mad Maxeman should have come out, chopped down the trees in the dead of night. A proper arborist in reality would do the job as any mistakes run the risk of the ‘lobby’ groups and possible criminal offences. 
 

In reality with all this negative publicity, which will relate to the trees issue, will spill over to the possible potential redevelopment of farming land, for possible residential use. I’m sure the planning applications will scoured more diligently in future, and I’m sure the planning committee will be more on the ball.

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1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

Well if I was the land owner I’d have chopped the trees down as soon as the kick off started, you have permission, why wait for a demonstration and the decision to be halted/appealed/reversed? That way the blame lays firmly with the the department who granted the decision in the first place.

It's bizarre that they haven't too be fair.

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1 hour ago, Trackman said:

Wouldn't it cause excitement at the general election if the Manx Green Party had two candidates in each constituency this year campaigning on the issues raised by the Elm tree kerfuffle?

Cos there's no bigger issues facing the island than chopping down a few trees? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 2112 said:

The Mad Maxeman should have come out, chopped down the trees in the dead of night. A proper arborist in reality would do the job as any mistakes run the risk of the ‘lobby’ groups and possible criminal offences. 

Even if you didn’t cut them down, if you took a chainsaw to them in enough places it would be enough to make them unsafe and felling (by a professional) would be the only option.

As much as I like the trees it does make a mockery of the whole planning process, someone within DEFA has visited the site, saw the mature elm trees, saw the plans and approved for them to be removed, but the anger seems to be directed towards the land owner rather than those who are paid by the public to preserve/protect wildlife and nature.

The petition whilst impressive is equally shocking, many more businesses here on island that contribute to the destruction of wildlife/nature on a daily basis and yet no one bats an eye lid.

‘Triggered’ is the word I think people use these days.

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Planning applications are amazingly easy to push through at present, while you cannot object to anything that is further away than next door to you, and notices are only posted at the site. Partially hidden notices make even more of a mockery of the system.

Add to this the obvious capabilities (?) of those looking after the system.

Some MHKs need to look very carefully at their positions in advance of the next election.

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21 hours ago, finlo said:

Would the Stabit lorry's even take that route?

Stabits were made off the Old Castletown Road near Meary Veg, but could well have been the route used to transport the stone used from Stoney Mountain quarry 

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8 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Could you possibly list the many more businesses here on island that contribute to the destruction of wildlife/nature on a daily basis?

Absolutely not, I don’t have deep enough pockets to withstand any libel/slander claims, I know you’ll argue that if it’s the truth I don’t need to worry but that’s not how it works.

I can say for example that lots of building waste isn’t processed or sorted correctly, lots of scrap vehicles aren’t depolluted properly (particularly air con gas that should be recovered and isn’t), quite a few spray shops that have inadequate filtration and simply vent to atmosphere.

We have nowhere to dispose of coolant, it just goes down the drain. We have petrol stations that don’t have the correct drainage, any fuel spilt simple washes down the drain whereas it should be separated.

Fuel/oil spills are fairly common place on the roads, a road sweeper will wash the road and then just deposits the contaminated water down a drain, sort of defeats the object.

Plenty more businesses that operate like they did in the 50s/60s and deny health and safety exists.

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