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Charities and Volunteers take on Government services


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1 hour ago, Ramseyboi said:

Plenty of local charities pocketing chunks of government cash for services that government should be providing, and in many cases could be providing for less than they pay out now as they already have the huge infrastructure to avoid duplication of costs etc.

i m not claiming to have the answer, but with so many government staff, building and other costs already we shouldn’t then be having government pay charities to provide a service and have to raise additional funds for it as a community when it would be more efficient in every way for government to provide those services in the first place.

 

Thats exactly the point I was making - only that sounded better.

Corrin Home though is a a good example then of the Government being the final resource if a charity folds. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Apple said:

Thats exactly the point I was making - only that sounded better.

Corrin Home though is a a good example then of the Government being the final resource if a charity folds. 

 

But that isn't what happened with the Corrin Home.  Government didn't step in, other than perhaps making places available in Government run facilities, although we don't know where residents went.

The Corrin Home is a good example of how a charity has limitations.  Only surmising, but perhaps they included within their charitable remit providing a residential facility at a little more than cost.  That meant that they didn't accumulate the reserves necessary to update the premises as standards changed/improved.  That left them in an impossible position when the standard was such that they could only meet it by lower occupancy resulting in even less revenue to run it let alone update or even rebuild.

Having that foresight and commercial acumen underlines why charities do need to be run by people with commercial acumen and foresight.  It is not enough to have good, altruistic intentions and that costs. 

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2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Having that foresight and commercial acumen underlines why charities do need to be run by people with commercial acumen and foresight.  It is not enough to have good, altruistic intentions and that costs. 

Well said @Gladys. That is what concerns me.

Integrated Care indicates they intend to introduce and make full use of charitable and volunteer resources on the island as an adjunct to statutory services. The boundaries of confidentiality and accountability are not clear as yet. 

I have previously been in some discussions where the proposal discussed was that postmen have been told to keep an eye on vulnerable people on their post rounds and report them to a local (voluntary) co-ordinator if they think further investigation of circumstances may be necessary. Presumably that information which overrides any confidentiality, goes to the local GP or District Nurse.

The problem comes when they miss something or fail to report it. Who is accountable. ?

Another scenario was to have the local community hubs as places for people in a mental health crisis can go to for help / support, manned by (trained) volunteers. The proposal looked at what could be available out of hours.

These ideas are part of the previous DHSC planning so I hope now the new Manx Care have shelved these ideas and will develop Primary Care services with voluntary / charity services fully supporting (behind) statutory services and qualified staff - not replacing them as a cheaper option. Something to watch for.

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1 hour ago, Ramseyboi said:

Plenty of local charities pocketing chunks of government cash for services that government should be providing, and in many cases could be providing for less than they pay out now as they already have the huge infrastructure to avoid duplication of costs etc.

i m not claiming to have the answer, but with so many government staff, building and other costs already we shouldn’t then be having government pay charities to provide a service and have to raise additional funds for it as a community when it would be more efficient in every way for government to provide those services in the first place.

 

It's a numbers game. Government needs to do stuff, but they're supposed to employ fewer people, so they outsource the work at greater cost and keep the staff numbers down.

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3 minutes ago, manxman34 said:

It's a numbers game. Government needs to do stuff, but they're supposed to employ fewer people, so they outsource the work at greater cost and keep the staff numbers down.

Exactly, and who wins in that situation.

Service users? no

Taxpayers? No

Fundraisers? no

Government ? no

The staff at the charity? No comment 

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11 minutes ago, Apple said:

Well said @Gladys. That is what concerns me.

Integrated Care indicates they intend to introduce and make full use of charitable and volunteer resources on the island as an adjunct to statutory services. The boundaries of confidentiality and accountability are not clear as yet. 

I have previously been in some discussions where the proposal discussed was that postmen have been told to keep an eye on vulnerable people on their post rounds and report them to a local (voluntary) co-ordinator if they think further investigation of circumstances may be necessary. Presumably that information which overrides any confidentiality, goes to the local GP or District Nurse.

The problem comes when they miss something or fail to report it. Who is accountable. ?

Another scenario was to have the local community hubs as places for people in a mental health crisis can go to for help / support, manned by (trained) volunteers. The proposal looked at what could be available out of hours.

These ideas are part of the previous DHSC planning so I hope now the new Manx Care have shelved these ideas and will develop Primary Care services with voluntary / charity services fully supporting (behind) statutory services and qualified staff - not replacing them as a cheaper option. Something to watch for.

Except that isn’t integrated care. Integrated care is joined up care between primary, secondary, off island, end of life and social care throughout life both in the community and residential settings.

Third sector and commercial may play a part in the shape of hospice or private care homes.

voluntary oversight and reporting  by people who have contact with the vulnerable in the community is a different question. It’s an alerting or reporting system. There’s no duty. Don’t see how the postie reporting mail piling up in porch or milkman reporting milk not taken in could breach confidentiality.

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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

Integrated care is joined up care between primary, secondary, off island, end of life and social care throughout life both in the community and residential settings.

 

Yes, I am aware  of that. it isn't about the set up though, it was about who was delivering the care. Hopefully Manx Care see things differently.

The local consultations were about to start when Covid hit sp presumably they might be held in the not too distant future.

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On 7/31/2021 at 10:28 PM, finlo said:

Even if you don't want to donate the government do it for you with no public mandate.

Like the nearly £1.4 million recently donated to Burundi.

Makes us all feel good eh? 

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18 minutes ago, quilp said:

Like the nearly £1.4 million recently donated to Burundi.

Makes us all feel good eh? 

Well who creates the most climate change?

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On 8/1/2021 at 1:39 PM, Gladys said:
On 8/1/2021 at 1:27 PM, Apple said:

Corrin Home though is a a good example then of the Government being the final resource if a charity folds. 

 

But that isn't what happened with the Corrin Home.  Government didn't step in, other than perhaps making places available in Government run facilities, although we don't know where residents went.

 

That is what I was referring to. When a charity can no longer function it's the responsibility of Government to provide an alternative source of whatever that charity was providing. 

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26 minutes ago, quilp said:

Go on, who..? 

Well, western countries, not the poor folks in Burundi who are having problems as a result.

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56 minutes ago, quilp said:

Like the nearly £1.4 million recently donated to Burundi.

Makes us all feel good eh? 

Not when the food bank is inundated, mental health provision is rubbish & homeless charities are getting significant demands!

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8 minutes ago, Apple said:

That is what I was referring to. When a charity can no longer function it's the responsibility of Government to provide an alternative source of whatever that charity was providing. 

How though?  The Corrin Home was no longer up to standard, so short of building a new facility what could Government do but offer alternative accommodation at other existing facilities. 

More widely, should Government be at the ready to step in when any social service charity fails? That implies having more than just money to bridge the gap. 

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2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

How though?  The Corrin Home was no longer up to standard, so short of building a new facility what could Government do but offer alternative accommodation at other existing facilities. 

Exactly. And that is what they did.

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

More widely, should Government be at the ready to step in when any social service charity fails? That implies having more than just money to bridge the gap. 

Emergency contingency planning should be in place to respond to any envisaged community and organisational shortfalls in the safety, care and treatment of people. 

It is too late when an enquiry starts. We should have learnt the lessons by now and table top and actual rehearsals need to factor charity failures in them, although they are not usually an overnight emergency. Although it could be. 

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