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IOM DHSC & MANX CARE


Cassie2
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If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better.

Having said that..............

If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events.

Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians???

This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS.

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Just now, Boris Johnson said:

If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better.

Having said that..............

If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events.

Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians???

This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS.

As was said many times by many people on here when Manx Care was first proposed...we all look forward in 5 years to the enquiry about why Manx Care was first proposed.

Every 5 to 10 years we look into failing social care and health systems here...and learn...nothing.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better.

Having said that..............

If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events.

Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians???

This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS.

I’m not suggesting we look to increase costs, but MPs get a budget to cover the staffing costs, as well as the cost of running a local office. So they can afford to pay a trusted advisor to help them work through what they are presented with by civil servants. Our MHKs are very much on their own and have to fully rely on civil servants, who may have their own agenda.

 

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs

Edited by StrangeBrew
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1 minute ago, StrangeBrew said:

I’m not suggesting we look to increase costs, but MPs get a budget to cover the staffing costs, as well as the cost of running a local office. So they can afford to pay a trusted advisor to help them work through what they are presented with by civil servants. Our MHKs are very much on their own and have to fully rely on civil servants, who may have their own agenda.

 

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs

UK politicians have a Party behind them, the staffing costs are more for admin and replying to minor stuff like a constituent moaning about dog shit on a pavement that our lot seem to revel in.

The islands top CS should not need to be fact checked when they tell their minister stuff.

That this is being implemented is shocking and a shows that our top CS are liars and cannot be trusted.....

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9 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better.

Having said that..............

If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events.

Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians???

This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS.

More for the band wagon, more wages, more pensions. Just cull the numbers at the top and if real independent advisers are being employed they should replace existing, excessive staff numbers. The entire government edifice is way too large.

Many of us have said similar many times before so don't hold out much hope anything will be done.

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4 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

More for the band wagon, more wages, more pensions. Just cull the numbers at the top and if real independent advisers are being employed they should replace existing, excessive staff numbers. The entire government edifice is way too large.

Many of us have said similar many times before so don't hold out much hope anything will be done.

Such a review this term was already rejected by Alf Cannan 2 months ago.

5 more years of even much worse to eventually have to sort out....with a lot of sudden pain.

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28 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

If Alf follows through on his promise to put independent board persons in every department to give impartial advice to Department Ministers then things may well get better.

Having said that..............

If the CM needs to appoint people to filter bullshit and lies from senior CS to their departmental ministers is a shocking state of events.

Does the UK or any other democracy need a group of non elected non CS to filter the truth? to the elected politicians???

This is the main thing said today in my opinion and it is a very sad reflection of the weakness of our elected and the standard of our top CS.

Well quite.  And of course if these people are appointed, the people who decide who they are will be the civil service, so they're hardly likely to rock the boat.  It's also worth pointing out that the one Department where this sort of system operates already is the DfE with its maze of Executive Agencies and Boards.  And it's probably the most useless Department around - even the DoI does some stuff, if not well.

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Posted (edited)

It is interesting how the problem has been seen  in Tynwald by CM in general terms perhaps as a “dilutional approach ’   rather than specific  to the the case in question.

Choosing to see it  as a general attitude/ cultural  problem “in Govt”  that can be addressed by general changes in attitude, culture by   training etc,

The problem  in fact could not  have been more specific  -a named individual,  Dr Ransom,  brought a case of unfair dismissal against the government and  Gov. lost -and how.

Further,  in the course of that tribunal specific individuals  working for government  (not a whole Department) ,  were very clearly identified  as being the sole  cause of that unfair treatment and considerable evidence was forthcoming of their totally unacceptable  behaviour  as individuals towards her.

There is no evidence (from this tribunal)  that this behaviour was in some way a cultural norm  for that or any other Department. On the basis of the tribunals findings, any general   “improvements” should begin with action against these perpetrators.

I may have missed hearing it,but recognising that the tribunal was about an individual being proven to have been treated badly, an apology to Dr Ranson would have been appropriate.

Edited by hampsterkahn
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9 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well quite.  And of course if these people are appointed, the people who decide who they are will be the civil service, so they're hardly likely to rock the boat.  It's also worth pointing out that the one Department where this sort of system operates already is the DfE with its maze of Executive Agencies and Boards.  And it's probably the most useless Department around - even the DoI does some stuff, if not well.

Think the agencies were Lewins idea & moved on leaving a crock of shit behind! Scrap those & MDC and save probably £1m pa with all the civil service support.

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2 minutes ago, Banker said:

Think the agencies were Lewins idea & moved on leaving a crock of shit behind! Scrap those & MDC and save probably £1m pa with all the civil service support.

Don't you know...running a £multi-millions health agency is just like running a hotel? ...

...Fawlty Towers.

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For every one special, independent adviser who has to be employed; 3 untrustworthy, lying twats should be dismissed.

Why should the GMTP have to pay for people who can't be trusted?

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2 hours ago, StrangeBrew said:

I’m not suggesting we look to increase costs, but MPs get a budget to cover the staffing costs, as well as the cost of running a local office. So they can afford to pay a trusted advisor to help them work through what they are presented with by civil servants. Our MHKs are very much on their own and have to fully rely on civil servants, who may have their own agenda.

 

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs

There more than happy with the situation they find themselves in as an MHK once inside the club and as long as they don’t rock the boat everything is at their disposal.

When  has an MHK brought about a private members bill for example ?

The only time they get busy is at election time and then they only try and keep their electorate happy 😃 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Just watched the Paul Moulton interview with Julie Edge, disappointing to hear she is firmly toeing the party line and praising Alfs 'plan'.  I hoped for better from her.

Alf’s plan per see isn’t that bad if you cut through the waffle - assuming he actually does what he says he will do in reforming the civil service. But keeping Ashford on as part of it will get embarrassing for him at one stage. The man has no credibility at all and we’ve now got to believe that he will be doing something to help all those poor people to pay their bills. Which he won’t do either. 

Edited by Newsdesk
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