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Manx Grand Prix


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15 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Is Digital successful? Rumour has it that it’s the ultimate incarnation of smoke and mirrors 

Ash dieback. A tree surgeon told me it’s something like 5000.

He’s bought a place on the Algarve on the basis*

(might not be true)

Ohh you little scamp Derek :D 

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IMO the only viable future for the TT is as a technology showcase. It should be a tech event. And that is where the money might be as manufacturers stop making petrol engines.

I love the seeing the old petrol bikes - in the same way as I can still appreciate why some people still like vinyl records.

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1 hour ago, pongo said:

IMO the only viable future for the TT is as a technology showcase. It should be a tech event. And that is where the money might be as manufacturers stop making petrol engines.

I love the seeing the old petrol bikes - in the same way as I can still appreciate why some people still like vinyl records.

Yes & Yes. Bought a new deck a few weeks ago, still buying vinyl.

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12 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Yes & Yes. Bought a new deck a few weeks ago, still buying vinyl.

I never stopped!

I am not sure the TT will go ahead next year, but feel the S100 and FOM will go ahead and pave the way for a full on TT in 23. 

TT survived WW1, Spanish flu, WW2, foot and mouth (60s), the loss of world championship status of the '70s, the lack of interest in the '90s, foot and mouth (01), and was again growing in popularity until Covid came along. It will be back. 

Edited by Cambon
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Any thoughts that the TT etc is a good "test of Machinery" is deluded.

I thought you were better than that Max. Its not and how you could think it is is a shocking lack of knowledge of modern manufacturing processes and the development of them.

It may have been in the 20s and later  50s of the previous century but thinking it is better than modern computer simulation  and controlled testing, is at best wishful thinking and more likely the thoughts of the deluded.

The TT is a death fest that will end as soon as we have that "event" where lots of people are maimed/ killed.

The bottom of Bray Hill crash with "Life Changing Injury's" to the spectators, was close but its only a matter of time before a bike goes into the grandstand and wipes out 10s of people.

 

Edited by Boris Johnson
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1 hour ago, Cambon said:

I never stopped!

I am not sure the TT will go ahead next year, but feel the S100 and FOM will go ahead and pave the way for a full on TT in 23. 

TT survived WW1, Spanish flu, WW2, foot and mouth (60s), the loss of world championship status of the '70s, the lack of interest in the '90s, foot and mouth (01), and was again growing in popularity until Covid came along. It will be back. 

Just out of interest how many visitors did TT attract in say, the 1970's, versus what it got in 2019? The costs of holding the TT are only going one way, while the TT numbers - thanks to lack of capacity on ferries and hotel beds compared with yesteryear - seem to be relatively static and with limited scope to grow.

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2 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

Any thoughts that the TT etc is a good "test of Machinery" is deluded.

I thought you were better than that Max. Its not and how you could think it is is a shocking lack of knowledge of modern manufacturing processes and the development of them.

It may have been in the 20s and later  50s of the previous century but thinking it is better than modern computer simulation  and controlled testing, is at best wishful thinking and more likely the thoughts of the deluded.

The TT is a death fest that will end as soon as we have that "event" where lots of people are maimed/ killed.

The bottom of Bray Hill crash with "Life Changing Injury's" to the spectators, was close but its only a matter of time before a bike goes into the grandstand and wipes out 10s of people.

 

Well, I can tell you that modern computer simulations do not always translate to what is felt on the road or race track. If they did, just about every vehicle would do everything perfectly, they do not. There are so many variables which change the characteristics such as tyres, suspension and settings, geometry, power delivery characteristics, fuel etc etc etc. 

The TT is still the ultimate test of a machine. A computer only shortens the time it takes to develop it. 

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32 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Well, I can tell you that modern computer simulations do not always translate to what is felt on the road or race track. If they did, just about every vehicle would do everything perfectly, they do not. There are so many variables which change the characteristics such as tyres, suspension and settings, geometry, power delivery characteristics, fuel etc etc etc. 

The TT is still the ultimate test of a machine. A computer only shortens the time it takes to develop it. 

But Max, the machinery used at the TT bears little resemblance to the production machinery it is supposed to originate from. Buying a £13k roadbike and throwing most of it away to be replaced by £60k's+ worth of aftermarket work and parts in order to be competitive (some of it often TT-specific) does not influence the buying public anymore. The TT is no longer the advertising board it used to be.

It would be interesting to know precisely what knowledge earned at the TT ever gets incorporated into modern production machinery, precious little, I'd suggest. I can remember watching an interview with a tyre baron years ago who said that by the time the TT came around, the development for that years tyres was long finished. Most sports bikes now are developed from CAD/CAM and short circuit development, which is why their sales numbers for road use have long been dwindling.

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5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

But Max, the machinery used at the TT bears little resemblance to the production machinery it is supposed to originate from. Buying a £13k roadbike and throwing most of it away to be replaced by £60k's+ worth of aftermarket work and parts in order to be competitive (some of it often TT-specific) does not influence the buying public anymore. The TT is no longer the advertising board it used to be.

It would be interesting to know precisely what knowledge earned at the TT ever gets incorporated into modern production machinery, precious little, I'd suggest. I can remember watching an interview with a tyre baron years ago who said that by the time the TT came around, the development for that years tyres was long finished. Most sports bikes now are developed from CAD/CAM and short circuit development, which is why their sales numbers for road use have long been dwindling.

That was true but the regulations for Superbike have been cutting a lot of the special bits away. Engines and chassis have a surprising number of standard features now. Superstock is even more standard, in fact many teams use this spec over Superbike as they are more suitable for the roads. Cad/Cam is a way of speeding up design, it doesn't replace engineers and proper development.   

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39 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Most sports bikes now are developed from CAD/CAM and short circuit development, which is why their sales numbers for road use have long been dwindling.

I'm not sure that's the reason for dwindling sales.

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8 hours ago, TomTucker said:

If rumours are to be believed there are 1000s of trees to be removed around the TT course.

If you see the sheer number marked with orange X’s then just between Sulby Ginger and R.G.S there is hundreds alone, I don’t think there will be hardly any left on that section.

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I think one of the many issues for the TT is the lack of interest in sports bikes. Max may be right on it being a good testing ground for machinery but the sales of sports bikes are relatively low and I wonder how much investment in TT machinery by the manufacturers will be seen to be cost-effective. Honda UK may continue to offer support but I see a future where investment will come solely from privateer teams. This is just the start of change within the motorcycle industry as the demands of buyers is reflected in what the manufacturers do and where they place their priorities. I read that Honda's most important bike launch in 2021 was the revamped NC750, which produces less than 60hp and has a fuel consumption figure of 80mpg. This bike has no relevance whatsoever to the TT. I think their biggest seller this year is either that bike or the Africa Twin. Neither has sports bike pretensions and neither will benefit from testing at the TT. As I have said before, the TT will continue for a while yet but it is difficult to believe that peak attendance is not behind us. 

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