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18 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I’ve said before that the current system means we end up with a CM who is disliked by the least, rather than chosen by the most.  What happens if a couple abstain and its 11-11?


It's looking Even Stevens in the Amadeus poll

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6 hours ago, SleepyJoe said:

Like Mr Cannan, Dr Allinson isn't going to give the voting public a say in determining policy for the next government

Good. Because that is exactly how representative democracy is supposed to work. We do not elect delegates, we elect representatives.

That is why you should ask them what they believe in before you vote. Rather than letting them pretend to listen.

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4 hours ago, wrighty said:

I’ve said before that the current system means we end up with a CM who is disliked by the least, rather than chosen by the most.  What happens if a couple abstain and its 11-11?

It’s a Manx Mess. Manx solutions for Manx Problems

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I think because neither of these two candidates (Allinson and Cannan) has a popular mandate to be Chief Minister, the whole election process is a bit of a hypocritical farce.

During the election campaign many of the candidates went out of their way to declare that the previous administration was a "do nothing failure", etc -  the same administration in which these two were both major players! It seems ironic to me that the members of the House of Keys now have to choose between the two candidates whom neither ‘scored’ outstandingly well when they were elected as MHKs.

IMHO, the way to fix this unfair system is to radically change the process by which the CM is chosen. The only sensible and representative way to do this is for the public to directly elect the next CM via a public vote. Under this method, anyone could stand for CM and that vote would be held at the same time the House of Keys is elected.  

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12 minutes ago, code99 said:

IMHO, the way to fix this unfair system is to radically change the process by which the CM is chosen. The only sensible and representative way to do this is for the public to directly elect the next CM via a public vote. Under this method, anyone could stand for CM and that vote would be held at the same time the House of Keys is elected.  

I agree.  A parallel, island-wide vote for chief minister with candidates declaring their intention to stand in advance.  3 MHKs elected in whichever constituency the CM happens to come from (this avoids the problem of being voted as CM by the island but rejected by the local constituency, and also allows the CM's constituency to have proper local representation in Tynwald instead of their MHK trying to do the hob-nobbing in Westminster while simultaneously sorting out local issues).  CM vote should be on a single transferable vote system.

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Manx Democracy - those who pay have no say

The idea that it is a good thing that MHKs as representatives vote what they in their own mind consider to be in the best interests of their electorate just isn't democratic in any sort of modern sense of the word - it should be consigned to history

They should actively canvas opinion, & if it's 50/50 on an issue they should vote against change until a consensus position is agreed

Building inclusive, vibrant democracies depends on the active engagement of all citizens in public life

Edited by SleepyJoe
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1 hour ago, SleepyJoe said:

Manx Democracy - those who pay have no say

The idea that it is a good thing that MHKs as representatives vote what they in their own mind consider to be in the best interests of their electorate just isn't democratic in any sort of modern sense of the word - it should be consigned to history

They should actively canvas opinion, & if it's 50/50 on an issue they should vote against change until a consensus position is agreed

Building inclusive, vibrant democracies depends on the active engagement of all citizens in public life

A bit like the Brexit referendum? 

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1 hour ago, SleepyJoe said:

Manx Democracy - those who pay have no say

The idea that it is a good thing that MHKs as representatives vote what they in their own mind consider to be in the best interests of their electorate just isn't democratic in any sort of modern sense of the word - it should be consigned to history

They should actively canvas opinion, & if it's 50/50 on an issue they should vote against change until a consensus position is agreed

Building inclusive, vibrant democracies depends on the active engagement of all citizens in public life

Nothing would ever get done and it worst cost an absolute fortune in pointless exercises to find out that island wide there are hundreds of opinions on everything.

You might as well do away with political representation completely and just have the civil servants ask for public input to every decision !

You elect representatives who you believe will best represent you and your views.  Not people to ask others what views they should hold.

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The vast majority of the Manx public haven't got a fucking clue what the duties of the Chief Minister are. And to be fair, most of those aren't particularly bothered. It ain't gonna make an awful lot of difference who it is.

These newspaper and radio polls are just laughable, but I suppose amusing. 

Leave this one to our elected representatives to decide. If you are that bothered, then aye, contact your MHK/s. For what good it would do anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

Nothing would ever get done and it worst cost an absolute fortune in pointless exercises to find out that island wide there are hundreds of opinions on everything.

You might as well do away with political representation completely and just have the civil servants ask for public input to every decision !

You elect representatives who you believe will best represent you and your views.  Not people to ask others what views they should hold.


We don't elect representatives to represent our views & our views alone - they're elected to represent all their constituents

Technology is now available to consult opinion & consultative online democracy is definitely the way forward

Some wealthy folks sponsor MPs in various ways in the hope they'll do their bidding, but it doesn't happen here AFAIK

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1 hour ago, SleepyJoe said:


We don't elect representatives to represent our views & our views alone - they're elected to represent all their constituents

Technology is now available to consult opinion & consultative online democracy is definitely the way forward
 

We elect them to represent the constituents, hopefully because they're honest, reliable, have integrity, and share a similar broad outlook as ourselves.  I wouldn't expect my MHK to run a Survey Monkey poll to ask constituents how to vote on a particular issue - they are in place to take those decisions on our behalf.  In the same vein, you can't please all the people all the time - to do the job properly an MHK will have to be annoying some of the people, some of the time.  The alternative is a bland, inoffensive, ineffective representative who does nothing for fear of causing some upset.

Consultative online democracy is definitely not the way forward.  See various facebook groups for evidence.

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5 minutes ago, wrighty said:

 The alternative is a bland, inoffensive, ineffective representative who does nothing for fear of causing some upset.

And everyone can name a few from the last administration, some have gone, some got re-elected!

Edited by Max Power
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6 minutes ago, wrighty said:

We elect them to represent the constituents, hopefully because they're honest, reliable, have integrity, and share a similar broad outlook as ourselves.  I wouldn't expect my MHK to run a Survey Monkey poll to ask constituents how to vote on a particular issue - they are in place to take those decisions on our behalf.  In the same vein, you can't please all the people all the time - to do the job properly an MHK will have to be annoying some of the people, some of the time.  The alternative is a bland, inoffensive, ineffective representative who does nothing for fear of causing some upset.

Consultative online democracy is definitely not the way forward.  See various facebook groups for evidence.


Unlike MHKs both IOM Today & Manx Radio are conducting voter polls on the preferred candidate for CM

Tynwald is ignoring the voter's wishes - given that we pay for all this, it is a disgrace to our democracy

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