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Manx Gas MEGA Price Rise


James Blonde
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3 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

If you don’t like it then sort your own solution and stop whining 

If you read my post above I have sorted my own solution. I’ve heavily insulated my house to well in excess of what’s normal for a house of its period and I don’t use very much gas. The standing charges are paid for by everyone though regardless which was my exact point. They must have a baseline turnover in income from standing charges even if they didn’t actually supply any gas to anyone.

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3 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

If you read my post above I have sorted my own solution. I’ve heavily insulated my house to well in excess of what’s normal for a house of its period and I don’t use very much gas. The standing charges are paid for by everyone though regardless which was my exact point. They must have a baseline turnover in income from standing charges even if they didn’t actually supply any gas to anyone.

I would suggest that is probably the point of a “standing charge” 😂. To make sure that people with low usage who are provided with a service still return them a profit and aren’t basically subsidised by everyone else.

How would that pan out on a few years as government continue to offer people grants to reduce their personal usage?  
 

They are a business who need to make a profit, and we all need them to stay viable or the island has a huge problem.  I don’t get what is difficult to understand?  You appear to want to be able to reduce how much has you use but still have them provide you with a storage and distribution system with all the (huge) associated costs, yet not charge you for the overheads nor charge very much for the product?

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40 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

If you read my post above I have sorted my own solution. I’ve heavily insulated my house to well in excess of what’s normal for a house of its period and I don’t use very much gas. The standing charges are paid for by everyone though regardless which was my exact point. They must have a baseline turnover in income from standing charges even if they didn’t actually supply any gas to anyone.

I think you are missing the point. Maintaining the infrastructure is a massive cost. The cost of supplying gas isn't just the volume supplied. Its about maintaining and renewing all the underground pipes etc. That is a fixed cost to Manx Gas and therefore a fixed cost to the customer. With you new insulated house, that doesn't save Manx Gas all those fixed costs so why should they discount them to you

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17 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I think you are missing the point.

There’s only one (or two) people missing the point in this thread and they aren’t me. Maybe you should read posts before you try to pointlessly argue with people? On that basis I’d suggest you read my posts again. 

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13 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

There’s only one (or two) people missing the point in this thread and they aren’t me. Maybe you should read posts before you try to pointlessly argue with people? On that basis I’d suggest you read my posts again. 

Apologies. I have re read your last post and yes I see what you are saying. Others are missing the point.

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The massive increase in the wholesale price of natural gas could result in IOM consumers paying much higher gas bills than the current proposal of a 27.5% increase, or the IOMG potentially having to bail out the owners of Manx Gas. Conveniently, the issue of higher gas prices on the Island was not debated during the election. Vulnerable consumers should be top priority - will we also see a similar increase in the price of electricity?

One thing that bothers me about Manx Gas is who owns them i.e., the owner may be best described as a hedge fund. A UK registered private company ‘Ancala Partners LLP’ have owned Manx Gas since 2016. Ancala trades under the name ‘Islands Energy Group’ and is also the parent company of Guernsey Gas and Jersey Gas.

I am not at all enthused that such a critical piece of the IOMs utility infrastructure is in opaque private hands. It seems to me that, no matter what happens to the cost of gas, the IOMG cannot let Ancala go broke because the IOMG must ensure that Island’s gas supply keeps flowing.

Is it morally and politically right that the IOM should be in a situation where it might have to bail out a UK based hedge fund? Why wasn’t Manx Gas owned by the IOMG in the first place?

Edited by code99
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19 minutes ago, code99 said:

The massive increase in the wholesale price of natural gas could result in IOM consumers paying much higher gas bills than the current proposal of a 27.5% increase, or the IOMG potentially having to bail out the owners of Manx Gas. Conveniently, the issue of higher gas prices on the Island was not debated during the election. Will we also see a similar increase in the price of electricity?

One thing that bothers me about Manx Gas is who owns them i.e., the owner may be best described as a hedge fund. A UK registered private company ‘Ancala Partners LLP’ have owned Manx Gas since 2016. Ancala trades under the name ‘Islands Energy Group’ and is also the parent company of Guernsey Gas and Jersey Gas.

I am not at all enthused that such a critical piece of the IOMs utility infrastructure is in opaque private hands. It seems to me that, no matter what happens to the cost of gas, the IOMG cannot let Ancala go broke because the IOMG must ensure that Island’s gas supply keeps flowing.

Is it morally and politically right that the IOM should be in a situation where it might have to bail out a UK based hedge fund? Why wasn’t Manx Gas owned by the IOMG in the first place?

Isle_of_Man_Manx_Gas_Crogga_Ltd_British_Geological_Survey_2.jpgTo put the gas debate in perspective for the IOM. 51% of of fossil fuel use is gas.

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So let me see if I understand this. Gas prices rise from 55p therm to 196p per therm in 12 months and Manx Gas want an increase from 7.64p to 9.74p on tarrif.

So wholesale gas prices rise by  196/55 = 356% (256% increase) and the tarrif only goes up 9.74/7.64 = 127% (27% increase) to break even, presumably.

So 12 months ago, on that ratio, should the tarrif have been  9.74 * 55/196 (28%) = 2.73p?

In other words it's not just that gas price risef now that is going to be hard but they've made 4.91p over and above the actual costs at 55p per therm for the last year or more.

It's about time the unit gas price was linked directly to the gas market price averaged over 12 months. That way when the price goes back down the tarrif goes back down in the exact same proportion. i.e. 9.74p/kWh tarrif drops by 72% to 2.74p/kWh and not just 21% to 7.64p/kWh.

Forecast Low User = +£21.00 per month ie. £63.00-£84.00 increase this winter. 

The Regulations will act as a price cap, meaning Manx Gas may  will then price up to this maximum tariff.

By the way 1 therm = 29kWh.

So normal gas price at 55p per therm nets 29kWh x 7.64p/kWh = 221.56p revenue (166.56p per therm markup or about 300% )

Now gas priced at 196p per therm will net them 29kWh x 9.74p/kWh = 282.46p revenue (86.46p per therm markup or about 44%)

No wonder they are squealing. Losing 80p per therm revenue and basically halving their profit but also explains why they aren't about to go bankrupt just yet either.

No wonder Manx Gas were keen to offer a pifling rebate in the hope we'd go away and not look too closely at normal gas pricing.  

 

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17 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

So let me see if I understand this. Gas prices rise from 55p therm to 196p per therm in 12 months and Manx Gas want an increase from 7.64p to 9.74p on tarrif.

So wholesale gas prices rise by  196/55 = 356% (256% increase) and the tarrif only goes up 9.74/7.64 = 127% (27% increase) to break even, presumably.

So 12 months ago, on that ratio, should the tarrif have been  9.74 * 55/196 (28%) = 2.73p?

In other words it's not just that gas price risef now that is going to be hard but they've made 4.91p over and above the actual costs at 55p per therm for the last year or more.

It's about time the unit gas price was linked directly to the gas market price averaged over 12 months. That way when the price goes back down the tarrif goes back down in the exact same proportion. i.e. 9.74p/kWh tarrif drops by 72% to 2.74p/kWh and not just 21% to 7.64p/kWh.

Forecast Low User = +£21.00 per month ie. £63.00-£84.00 increase this winter. 

The Regulations will act as a price cap, meaning Manx Gas may  will then price up to this maximum tariff.

By the way 1 therm = 29kWh.

So normal gas price at 55p per therm nets 29kWh x 7.64p/kWh = 221.56p revenue (166.56p per therm markup or about 300% )

Now gas priced at 196p per therm will net them 29kWh x 9.74p/kWh = 282.46p revenue (86.46p per therm markup or about 44%)

No wonder they are squealing. Losing 80p per therm revenue and basically halving their profit but also explains why they aren't about to go bankrupt just yet either.

No wonder Manx Gas were keen to offer a pifling rebate in the hope we'd go away and not look too closely at normal gas pricing.  

 

They would have had some of the increase hedged against. If the price stays this high for a while you can expect a proportional rise.

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6 hours ago, Happier diner said:

They would have had some of the increase hedged against. If the price stays this high for a while you can expect a proportional rise.

I'd like to see a proportional decrease once things get back to normal. Not back to the old status quo.

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I would actually like it if they would stop sending reminders for bills not actually received. Apparently their billing providers are not sending them out as they should.

Print my own off - blooming cheek !

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