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Entrapment ?


hissingsid
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We don’t have fixed speed cameras here but thread on twitter saying police often hide around the corner from a fixed speed camera and catch the motorists who slow down for fixed camera and then speed up after. Made me laugh. 

Have seen them lurking in gateways over here 

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There's a difference with speed cameras because a driver should always know if they are over the limit or not and the limits are clearly marked.  There's no element of entrapment, it's not like they're putting up signs saying "Go faster!".  When assessing the age of someone purchasing age-restricted goods, there's an element of uncertainty, which is why shops often have signs saying that those under 25 may be challenged.

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There will be some assessment on whether the shop took reasonable steps to verify the age of the purchaser if there’s reasonable doubt. I’m out tonight with someone who was involved with this when they worked at weights and measures. Can ask them to check if that still current situation 

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1 hour ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

Not much of a smart initiative if you broadcast it to everyone first

perhaps it is, all the shop keepers will be aware and be extra vigilant,   on the flip side re entrapment, it seems a good way to create instantly solvable offences to get the crime solving  success stats up.

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1 hour ago, Manx17 said:

What a waste of tax payers money. I seen this in the news and he was asked is there a problem on the island and he said no. The money wasted on this would be better spent on somewhere for youngsters to go . Trying to find crime when there is none . Sneaky !

I agree, there should be many more activities put on so that they have somewhere to go and something to do instead of hanging around the streets bored and making a nuisance of themselves. It's wrong of you to suggest all the police are "youngsters" though, that could be considered ageist, some of them are quite old. 

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

There's a difference with speed cameras because a driver should always know if they are over the limit or not and the limits are clearly marked.  There's no element of entrapment, it's not like they're putting up signs saying "Go faster!".  When assessing the age of someone purchasing age-restricted goods, there's an element of uncertainty, which is why shops often have signs saying that those under 25 may be challenged.

Which is true, but retailers should always be aware and asking for ID, there could be a good case for dismissal if the youngster involved looked over 21. 

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I find it surprisingly difficult to get grown-ups to buy me alcohol...

This actually did happen to me in NZ about 15 years ago.  They brought in a new rule that anyone under 30 needed proof to purchase booze.  Only NZ ID/drivers licenses or a passport were acceptable.  I'd had to send my passport to the Embassy for something and didn't have any valid ID to buy booze for 2 weeks.  So I had to resort to hanging around outside Off Licenses in my mid 20s trying to get people to buy me booze! 

 

 

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3 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I know John will know how this plays out.    On the Nations Station’s news this morning the police have started an initiative to prevent youngsters from purchasing drink, cigarettes and fireworks.   The cunning stunt is to send good 😇 children into places that sell these commodities and see if they get served.   Surely this could be seen as entrapment or am I watching too many second rate crime shows.   Personally I do not see this working as the kids send older people in to get the goods for them.

You have forgotten top shelf adult magazines - thought you have to be over 18 to purchase. 
 

Do they still have cigarette vending machines, and how do you make sure someone purchasing is over the required age?

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2 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

I'd also be interested in John's legal knowledge on entrapment. 'Jailbait' and spyware is used by law enforcement on the internet all the time. I wonder how many unwary browsers accidentally click on something or find themselves tracked.  

Judging by some comments I've heard at boozy social gatherings where some of our law enforcement officers have been seen/heard they should be on the naughty list themselves.

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6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Do they still have cigarette vending machines, and how do you make sure someone purchasing is over the required age?

According to Wiki:

Banned in England since 1 October 2011, Wales since 1 February 2012, Northern Ireland since 1 March 2012, Scotland since 29 April 2013

To be honest I was surprised it was so recent, but I think they tended to be restricted to within over-18 venues before that and not much there after the smoking bans.

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13 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Judging by some comments I've heard at boozy social gatherings where some of our law enforcement officers have been seen/heard they should be on the naughty list themselves.

Aaaaaaah doesn’t surprise me. Bet their behaviour is swept under the carpet.

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42 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

According to Wiki:

Banned in England since 1 October 2011, Wales since 1 February 2012, Northern Ireland since 1 March 2012, Scotland since 29 April 2013

To be honest I was surprised it was so recent, but I think they tended to be restricted to within over-18 venues before that and not much there after the smoking bans.

 

35 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Aaaaaaah doesn’t surprise me. Bet their behaviour is swept under the carpet.

there used to be one in the Palace hotel and casino  its yonks since I have been in there  can somebody tell me if its still there , ?

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1 hour ago, 2112 said:

Do they still have cigarette vending machines, and how do you make sure someone purchasing is over the required age?

 

I've certainly seen someone I know is banned from purchasing alcohol using the self-service tills at M&S. 

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2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

I find it surprisingly difficult to get grown-ups to buy me alcohol...

This actually did happen to me in NZ about 15 years ago.  They brought in a new rule that anyone under 30 needed proof to purchase booze.  Only NZ ID/drivers licenses or a passport were acceptable.  I'd had to send my passport to the Embassy for something and didn't have any valid ID to buy booze for 2 weeks.  So I had to resort to hanging around outside Off Licenses in my mid 20s trying to get people to buy me booze! 

 

 

They seem quite strict in some USA states. Went in to a bar where the owner wasn’t taking chances and everyone was asked for ID before being served. I’d left my passport in the hotel so I was refused service. I was in my late 40’s

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