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A Plan


TheTeapot
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18 minutes ago, Banker said:

Jane PW is deputy but I could see KLB being annoyed at delays especially when speaking to someone like Glover!

A deputy is not necessarily your go to person on a daily basis. KLB and AC are both situated on the third floor of Government Offices. JPW is down Tromode. 

JPW definitely doesn't seem the type to lose her temper.

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38 minutes ago, Banker said:

Jane PW is deputy but I could see KLB being annoyed at delays especially when speaking to someone like Glover!

Seems understandable if the Chuckle Brothers didn't contribute anything to the process. 

Screenshot_20220119-191406_Facebook.jpg

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Moorhouse had the prize already (just) - he managed to beat Hooper in the last Tynwald by 769 to 758.  Edge was a respectable third (634).  Of course Glover was literally paid to ask questions of politicians before he was elected, so you would expect him to continue doing so (which isn't to say he's good at it).

Both Edge and Hooper need to be careful about becoming too enthusiastic about defending their Departments - especially over historic decisions they had nothing to do with.  Civil servants won't hesitate to drop them in it if it saves their own skin and the information they get from them may be 'filtered' at best.  To some extent this may already have happened to Edge over the flumes and Hooper should realise that his relationship with Manx Care is more complicated than that of Minister and Department.

Didn’t Jason hold the record at one point in the last Keys for fewest (or even zero) questions asked at one point?

The lad has certainly came over his stage fright…..he’s on fire 🔥  No question, no matter how irrelevant, off limits!

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23 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

Seems understandable if the Chuckle Brothers didn't contribute anything to the process. 

Screenshot_20220119-191406_Facebook.jpg

Why not post what Moorhouse said in the first place to see what elicited this response from KLB or maybe his response to this comment...

"Our Island Plan" is not a backbench document, it's the Government's document. If the Government doesn't engage Members correctly then that is THEIR fault not the backbenchers; and they only have themselves to blame when things go wrong. 

23 minutes ago, Banker said:

Yes Hooper has said something similar to Glover 

Of course he did. It's almost like they've both been briefed on what to say...

If the Chief Minister had tried to do this when Hooper was a backbencher he would have thrown all his toys out of the pram. A remarkable change really.

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13 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Why not post what Moorhouse said in the first place to see what elicited this response from KLB or maybe his response to this comment...

"Our Island Plan" is not a backbench document, it's the Government's document. If the Government doesn't engage Members correctly then that is THEIR fault not the backbenchers; and they only have themselves to blame when things go wrong. 

If people are that interested then they can find it on Moorhouse's stream of consciousness/Facebook page. 

But thanks for your view on that, Tim.

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5 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

If people are that interested then they can find it on Moorhouse's stream of consciousness/Facebook page. 

But thanks for your view on that, Tim.

So you'll cherry pick what suits your agenda. Nice.

I'm intrigued, which one of the many Tim's do you think I am? 

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9 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

So you'll cherry pick what suits your agenda. Nice.

I'm intrigued, which one of the many Tim's do you think I am? 

Well the comments of KLB were what was being discussed, so yes I will pick that part. 

Which Tim? The not very good political one. 

If you're struggling to find his spiel then here it is in glorious monochrome: 

 

Good Morning,
 
Tomorrow is day 100 of the Cannan Administration.
 
The first one hundred days of any administration is now analysed in great detail by some political pundits, because it is seen as the time when things should really be starting to happen and the Cabinet’s ability to work together and with others will have been tested.
 
Yesterday, was a historical day because the Chief Minister’s ‘blue print’ for the next 5 years did not get the support it required in Tynwald.
 
In fact it was worse than that, it did not even get debated.
 
Something fundamentally wrong happened.
 
The two elements from the first line from the Chief Minister’s press statement last night accurately reflects the situation, but will CoMin actually consider the words?
 
“It is surprising that eight members of the House of Keys have chosen not to support the suspension of standing orders to allow the Island Plan be debated in Tynwald today, but I accept the overriding message that they felt they did not have enough time to read the plan in the five days since publication’’
 
The two elements of this statement, which I really do hope that CoMin will consider on Day 100 of this Administration are: 

1. The first three words of the statement ’It is surprising’. 
 
That should NOT have been a surprise at all, 16 votes were required to allow the debate to take place and there was no attempt to ‘test the waters’ to really find out what each Member thought...
 
Out of 24 possible votes, three Members were away, Mr Speaker said he would vote ‘No’, another Member had said words to that effect in the media and a third had sent an open letter sharing concerns with the Chief Minister.
 
I sit next to the Chief Minister and from his perspective the phrase is correct.  Mr Cannan's demeanour and the words he muttered really did indicate he was genuinely surprised....
 
That vote should not have been a surprise, CoMin MUST start to listen more carefully, to ask and not to expect Members to simply call in and say ‘This won’t work’. Unfortunately, that was still the mind-set of several Ministers last night.
 
2.  The second area of concern  links to the Speaker concerns about the rushed nature if this.  ‘I accept the overriding message that they felt they did not have enough time to read the plan’. 

It was rushed – These are the key times from last week:
 
Monday 11.45 – Informed of a presentation at 12.30 on Tuesday.
Tuesday 11.02 ‘Final Plan’ sent to Members.
Tuesday 12.30 Presentation
Thursday 15.58 Supplementary Tynwald Order Paper released.
 
However, it is more than that, my concern as a Backbencher is that we were not being listened to.
 
Three Ministers clearly stated to me following the decision ‘This can’t be changed’
 
To each of them, I said the same thing. ‘That is not the issue, the issue is you need to listen and the document needs to be accompanied by additional materials such as a ten item priority list’
 
In one more heated exchange with a senior Minister, I made reference to what had happened in the morning Sitting with regards to masks and her response was, ‘I don’t want the hear anything more about masks, I’ve had it up to here with masks’
 
My response was ‘This morning it moved on from masks, it was a clear exhibition of CoMin defending a position that is not working and not listening or considering the behaviour and the thoughts of a significant number of the Island’s people’
 
Hopefully, the first thing they do at tomorrow’s CoMin is consider their  ‘’they’’ and ‘we’ mentality and really think about how it is ALL about US working together, listening to other politician and the people and getting things done together.
 
Jason

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37 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

Well the comments of KLB were what was being discussed, so yes I will pick that part. 

Which Tim? The not very good political one. 

If you're struggling to find his spiel then here it is in glorious monochrome: 

 

Good Morning,
 
Tomorrow is day 100 of the Cannan Administration.
 
The first one hundred days of any administration is now analysed in great detail by some political pundits, because it is seen as the time when things should really be starting to happen and the Cabinet’s ability to work together and with others will have been tested.
 
Yesterday, was a historical day because the Chief Minister’s ‘blue print’ for the next 5 years did not get the support it required in Tynwald.
 
In fact it was worse than that, it did not even get debated.
 
Something fundamentally wrong happened.
 
The two elements from the first line from the Chief Minister’s press statement last night accurately reflects the situation, but will CoMin actually consider the words?
 
“It is surprising that eight members of the House of Keys have chosen not to support the suspension of standing orders to allow the Island Plan be debated in Tynwald today, but I accept the overriding message that they felt they did not have enough time to read the plan in the five days since publication’’
 
The two elements of this statement, which I really do hope that CoMin will consider on Day 100 of this Administration are: 

1. The first three words of the statement ’It is surprising’. 
 
That should NOT have been a surprise at all, 16 votes were required to allow the debate to take place and there was no attempt to ‘test the waters’ to really find out what each Member thought...
 
Out of 24 possible votes, three Members were away, Mr Speaker said he would vote ‘No’, another Member had said words to that effect in the media and a third had sent an open letter sharing concerns with the Chief Minister.
 
I sit next to the Chief Minister and from his perspective the phrase is correct.  Mr Cannan's demeanour and the words he muttered really did indicate he was genuinely surprised....
 
That vote should not have been a surprise, CoMin MUST start to listen more carefully, to ask and not to expect Members to simply call in and say ‘This won’t work’. Unfortunately, that was still the mind-set of several Ministers last night.
 
2.  The second area of concern  links to the Speaker concerns about the rushed nature if this.  ‘I accept the overriding message that they felt they did not have enough time to read the plan’. 

It was rushed – These are the key times from last week:
 
Monday 11.45 – Informed of a presentation at 12.30 on Tuesday.
Tuesday 11.02 ‘Final Plan’ sent to Members.
Tuesday 12.30 Presentation
Thursday 15.58 Supplementary Tynwald Order Paper released.
 
However, it is more than that, my concern as a Backbencher is that we were not being listened to.
 
Three Ministers clearly stated to me following the decision ‘This can’t be changed’
 
To each of them, I said the same thing. ‘That is not the issue, the issue is you need to listen and the document needs to be accompanied by additional materials such as a ten item priority list’
 
In one more heated exchange with a senior Minister, I made reference to what had happened in the morning Sitting with regards to masks and her response was, ‘I don’t want the hear anything more about masks, I’ve had it up to here with masks’
 
My response was ‘This morning it moved on from masks, it was a clear exhibition of CoMin defending a position that is not working and not listening or considering the behaviour and the thoughts of a significant number of the Island’s people’
 
Hopefully, the first thing they do at tomorrow’s CoMin is consider their  ‘’they’’ and ‘we’ mentality and really think about how it is ALL about US working together, listening to other politician and the people and getting things done together.
 
Jason

Do you disagree with any of that; and if so why?

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21 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Do you disagree with any of that; and if so why?

Semantics. 

 

 

I disagree with MHKs acting up and not following the process, but only too happy to start grandstanding when the time comes. 

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2 hours ago, 747-400 said:

Respect to KLB 👍👍👍

It seems to me that the tone of the first paragraph of Kate Lord Brennan's message is sarcastic - insulting. But maybe that is just the standard of inter-personal communication for people who use Facebook to convey their message.

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1 hour ago, 747-400 said:

Didn’t Jason hold the record at one point in the last Keys for fewest (or even zero) questions asked at one point?

The lad has certainly came over his stage fright…..he’s on fire 🔥  No question, no matter how irrelevant, off limits!

I always feel slightly guilty about this, because I pointed out that he hadn't even spoken after a few months and he amended his ways rather dramatically.  It soared to an even higher rate after Ashford got made Minister and Moorhouse took over his role as the Person Who Will Ask Any Question For Anyone.

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