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Liverpool Bombing!


Max Power
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1 hour ago, HeliX said:

I'm not sure about this explanation. Why would you create a difficult timer mechanism which doesn't allow for any deviation rather than just a button?

It was homemade they are not a hundred per cent. The same guy supposedly had a fascination for knives and was sectioned under the mental health act. When a politician was sadly stabbed it was said it was an act of terrorism. You have to wonder what the difference is with this guy at the time.

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The press seem to be making a thing of his alleged conversion to Christianity, with some saying that this is a thing asylum seekers pretend to do in order to further their case.

It feels like a Lewis Carroll piece - pretend to convert from believing in one made up religion and start following a different pretend friend, except that the grand wizards of this second religion don’t like it and refuse to drip the stagnant font water on them unless they really really believe in their imaginary friend, demonstrating this by attending church at least half a dozen times or something. 
 

I just don’t get religion. I really don’t understand how it’s a thing in this day and age. 

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@quilp Western culture has a long tradition of dying for God and the country. The whole nonsense blood and soil tradition is very much a variation on the same theme.

Gods and the imaginary lines which men draw on maps. Look at Ireland for example.

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14 hours ago, quilp said:

Screenshot_20211117-131754_Chrome.jpg

Everyone always seems to forget about the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials etc.  Christians are not holier than thou. 

In fact, the problem with Islam is that 'scholars' can issue fatwahs based purely on their interpretation of the Quoran, that can in fact be contrary to the general jist of the message.

The purpose of Religion was to organise groups of people into a common purpose and to answer the great mysteries of the world.  Nowadays we have the Limited Liability Company and Science. 

 

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15 hours ago, wrighty said:

The press seem to be making a thing of his alleged conversion to Christianity, with some saying that this is a thing asylum seekers pretend to do in order to further their case.

It feels like a Lewis Carroll piece - pretend to convert from believing in one made up religion and start following a different pretend friend, except that the grand wizards of this second religion don’t like it and refuse to drip the stagnant font water on them unless they really really believe in their imaginary friend, demonstrating this by attending church at least half a dozen times or something. 
 

I just don’t get religion. I really don’t understand how it’s a thing in this day and age. 

It's the same God. 

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4 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Everyone always seems to forget about the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials etc. Christians are not holier than thou. 

An old argument, employed to somehow excuse the actions of present-day islamists. Christianity was a different entity a thousand and more years ago, compared to Islam and the majority of muslims across the world today Christianity has 'matured' for want of a better description. More concerning is the influence of Islam in the 'modern' world. No other religion is more politicised than it.

1 minute ago, Declan said:

It's the same God. 

It most certainly is not, ask any muslim. The cry, "allah u akbar" literally translates as 'Allah is greater (greatest)' It is definitive to the point. To muslim purists it is everything, acknowledgement that their sky god is superior and omniscient amongst all others.

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19 minutes ago, quilp said:

 and the majority of muslims across the world today 

It most certainly is not, ask any muslim. The cry, "allah u akbar" literally translates as 'Allah is greater (greatest)' It is definitive to the point. To muslim purists it is everything, acknowledgement that their sky god is superior and omniscient amongst all others.

Nope, not the 'majority' of Muslims.  Maybe you should actually expand your horizons and spend some time with them and come back to us with some thought out non racist points.  I have received more kindness and hospitability and seen more selflessness from Muslims than I have seen from most Christians. 

Yes it is the same god just with a different nickname.  'His' actual name is Yahweh and Allah just means God in Arabic.  Jews, Christians, Muslims all derived from Abraham, just  different rule books and that is the irony. 

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1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

Nope, not the 'majority' of Muslims.

The vast majority of muslims follow the edicts in the koran and a-hadiths, in some islamic countries this is enforced with an ending threat of violence, on pain of physical punishment and ultimately death. Look at Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Central Africa, hundreds of millions of people subjugated by force into a medieval culture. How very modern...

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

Maybe you should actually expand your horizons and spend some time with them...

Expand my horizons? Is that what I need to do? How very condescending of you. And I have spent a great deal of time with "them", work and leisure. At the end of the day most of the Muslims I've met are just ordinary people at a personal level but this actually bears little relevance to what takes place around the rest of the world.

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

... come back to us with some thought out non racist points.

Ah, rolling out the race card. Didn't take you long. So hiw has a religious cult, an ideology composed of adherents and converts of many colours somehow transformed itself, with the help of liberal apologists in the west, into a race? Are Christians and Jews tied to race in the same way? The accusation of racism itself, like the term islamophobia, is used purely to stifle debate. An old but sadly enduring chestnut...

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

I have received more kindness and hospitability and seen more selflessness from Muslims than I have seen from most Christians.

Let me make it clear, only a fool would place the blame for the murderous islamism and terror tactics seen in the present era at the door of ALL muslims. It is also my experience that kindness and hospitality is traditional amongst the ummah but it's certainly not exclusive to any degree when compared to the charitable nature with other religions.

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

Yes it is the same god just with a different nickname.

It would be difficult to ascertain just how many muslims would agree with you on this claim.

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

'His' actual name is Yahweh and Allah just means God in Arabic.

Too simplistic but a common misconception. The qu'ran describes allah as being "lord of the worlds," unlike the biblical Yahweh, the muslim god has no name, for He requires none, apparently. Adds to the mystique, mustn't ask, mustn't tell. A common tactic in all religions through the ages, like the Latin mass in Catholicism.

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

Jews, Christians, Muslims all derived from Abraham, just  different rule books and that is the irony. 

No other cult, whether Jew, Christian or whatever, appears to demand such exceptionalism and respect, why should this be?

As you've accused me of being racist this debate can go no further as far as I'm concerned.

It works, well done, debate successfully stifled...

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2 minutes ago, quilp said:

The vast majority of muslims follow the edicts in the koran and a-hadiths, in some islamic countries this is enforced with an ending threat of violence, on pain of physical punishment and ultimately death. Look at Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Central Africa, hundreds of millions of people subjugated by force into a medieval culture. How very modern...

Expand my horizons? Is that what I need to do? How very condescending of you. And I have spent a great deal of time with "them", work and leisure. At the end of the day most of the Muslims I've met are just ordinary people at a personal level but this actually bears little relevance to what takes place around the rest of the world.

Ah, rolling out the race card. Didn't take you long. So hiw has a religious cult, an ideology composed of adherents and converts of many colours somehow transformed itself, with the help of liberal apologists in the west, into a race? Are Christians and Jews tied to race in the same way? The accusation of racism itself, like the term islamophobia, is used purely to stifle debate. An old but sadly enduring chestnut...

Let me make it clear, only a fool would place the blame for the murderous islamism and terror tactics seen in the present era at the door of ALL muslims. It is also my experience that kindness and hospitality is traditional amongst the ummah but it's certainly not exclusive to any degree when compared to the charitable nature with other religions.

It would be difficult to ascertain just how many muslims would agree with you on this claim.

Too simplistic but a common misconception. The qu'ran describes allah as being "lord of the worlds," unlike the biblical Yahweh, the muslim god has no name, for He requires none, apparently. Adds to the mystique, mustn't ask, mustn't tell. A common tactic in all religions through the ages, like the Latin mass in Catholicism.

No other cult, whether Jew, Christian or whatever, appears to demand such exceptionalism and respect, why should this be?

As you've accused me of being racist this debate can go no further as far as I'm concerned.

It works, well done, debate successfully stifled...

To be honest this is probably the first time I have ever played the racist card. 

In light of the current modern focus on it, most people would check and review any racial bias they may have before they make any comments to avoid being called out.  It was not me that said "the majority of muslims".  Have you been to any of these places you refer?  I've spent time in Iraq and Bosnia with the Army, which if you'll recall had some interesting Islamic times not so long ago and yet I still do not hold the view that it is "the majority of muslims" responsible for these horrendous acts. 

Like so much of it all today, it is the acts of the few that tar the majority.  Although I will freely admit that I think the majority of muslims certainly need to try to do more fix the problems with their minority brethren. 

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3 hours ago, Declan said:

It's the same God. 

I agree with you on that point - one non-existent deity is pretty much the same as any other.  Perhaps I should have made a more sophisticated argument and talked about belief systems, or 'prophets' (who may or may not have existed in reality as a single person - there's apparently precious little actual historical evidence for a man called Jesus.  More so Mohammed)

I still don't get its relevance in this day and age.

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How odd.  A unicorn is not the same as a fairy even though they are both made up. 

You can see the differences though the description of the made-up object. 

The Christian god is a Trinity and includes the man-god incarnation. It is blasphemous, heresy etc to claim this incarnation is not an integral part of the idea of the deity. 

The Islamic god is singular. It specifically does not include any man-god incarnation. It is blasphemous, heresy etc to claim any connection between the Islamic god and any human. 

These descriptions are different, fundamentally different. As different from each other as Zeus is from Vishnu. 

They might all be man-made description but that isn't the point. They have fundamental characteristics which cannot be reconciled. Just as a dragon is not a unicorn, Allah is not the Christian god 

Anyone who tries to claim they are the same, doesn't understand the concept of monotheism. Sure both gods have this characteristic, but though theologian of either faith may say that is a necessary characteristic of their god it is insufficient to distinguish them. Their other characteristics do that. 

Ah well. Isn't it amazing what we can do with made-up stuff. Our attempts at consistency can lead us to bedlam. Could King Lear whistle, does the barber who shaves every one in the village who doesn't shave themselves exist and is enslaving people a sin?

Answers on a postcard, please. 

 

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People are tribal - always have been and always will be. They like to belong to a club of people like them..........it can be based on colour, on religion, on which sport they prefer to support or how much money they have. Any reason that can bind them together. You will probably never stop it. Some saddos have no life to speak of and use this "tribe" to make themselves feel important; this can negatively impact other tribes. See christians/muslims, CofE/catholic, Extinctio Rebellion/everyone else.

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