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Sentience
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On 2/16/2022 at 10:30 AM, Sentience said:

Troops, Tanks & Bombs in 2022....Two thousand and twenty-two years!!

Didn't two world wars, Vietnam and countless other bloodbaths teach us anything?

 

Whilst I think it's harsh that Ukraine will have to be told no to join NATO.  It should be their decision.  I don't really see how this is any different to the Cuban Missile crisis.  Eventually Russia pulled out of having weapons on the US doorstep and NATO unfortunately have to do the same thing now. 

Nonetheless Putin is still a bond villain. 

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You seem to draw an equivalence between the members of NATO and the Soviet Union/Russia. The Soviet Union was the reason for NATO when it occupied the whole of Eastern Europe (Directly or by proxy) after WW2 until the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Without NATO we'd all be speaking Russian.     

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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

I just think that if a bunch of countries have a military treaty and you aren't part of it then that's a threat.

Well it's how WW1 started. 

Unfortunately Eastern Europe is one massive plain that is extremely difficult to defend and Russia knows this.  Russia has also been invaded many times in its past and wants a buffer zone to stop this happening ever again. 

I don't agree with it, but I do understand it. 

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1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

You seem to draw an equivalence between the members of NATO and the Soviet Union/Russia. The Soviet Union was the reason for NATO when it occupied the whole of Eastern Europe (Directly or by proxy) after WW2 until the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Without NATO we'd all be speaking Russian.     

It's very much a chicken and egg scenario.  Was the Warsaw Pact in response to NATO or vice versa? 

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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

'There's a vague faint line somewhere that if you cross we'll blow your shit up'

I just think that if a bunch of countries have a military treaty and you aren't part of it then that's a threat.

Do you really think Sweden feels threatened by the existence of NATO countries surrounding it?

Sweden knows how to behave, understands it cannot threaten force to derail peaceful policy choices. 

Russia on the other hand ...

Peaceful countries need a deterrence against those who threatened illegitimate violence in the international sphere. Such a deterrence is no threat to countries which behave. Hence Sweden has no concerns. 

Russia on the other hand ...

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2 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Do you really think Sweden feels threatened by the existence of NATO countries surrounding it?

Sweden knows how to behave, understands it cannot threaten force to derail peaceful policy choices. 

Russia on the other hand ...

Peaceful countries need a deterrence against those who threatened illegitimate violence in the international sphere. Such a deterrence is no threat to countries which behave. Hence Sweden has no concerns. 

Russia on the other hand ...

I know all this China, my objection was to the statement 'NATO is no threat to Russia', which I don't agree with, its very existence is a threat to Russia.

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