Jump to content

Russia


Sentience
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, quilp said:

We saw news reports of a car being run over by a 'Russian' tank, the driver of the car surviving miraculously. Now it's being alleged that it was in fact, a Ukrainian APC, an inexperienced driver having lost control.

Who and what can assuredly be believed..?

That was a very good example of ‘fake news’ there were no markings on the tank, so how could it be Russian?.  Low and behold I then read a story that it was Russians that hijacked a Ukrainian APC, it’s impossible to know who or what to believe.  I certainly don’t think it was deliberate, driving anything with metal tracks on any sort of smooth surface at high speed would be like trying to drive on ice, the tank/APC looked like it slid quite violently, if they wanted to drive over the car they’d have aimed for it head on.

Putin will always be the boy who cried wolf, even if there is the slightest possible chance he was right about a single thing he’s absolutely fucked his chances because he’s gone about things completely the wrong way.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Mr. Sausages said:

Russia today says there’s a us bio weapons lab in Ukraine? They wouldn’t say that if it wasn’t true. This changes everything.

Sure it's true - "The US has 11 bio weapon labs in Ukraine that we (presumably, Russia) fund". Can't argue with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Annoymouse I don't think I would describe either of the examples you gave as "fake news" at least when the information first circulated.  In both cases the incidents happened, however, the detail was unclear or lacking. 

Of course once these things started to be picked up by the media, social media and the Governments involved they took the opportunity to obscure the facts and apply their own interpretations.  Therefore making it propaganda.

The other point I would make is that in the fog of war it can take time for the true facts to come out and be confirmed by both sides.  In my mind "fake news" is more of a blatant lie (see Trump & Johnson).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

@Annoymouse I don't think I would describe either of the examples you gave as "fake news" at least when the information first circulated.  In both cases the incidents happened, however, the detail was unclear or lacking. 

Of course once these things started to be picked up by the media, social media and the Governments involved they took the opportunity to obscure the facts and apply their own interpretations.  Therefore making it propaganda.

The other point I would make is that in the fog of war it can take time for the true facts to come out and be confirmed by both sides.  In my mind "fake news" is more of a blatant lie (see Trump & Johnson).


Pushing a story to suit an agenda is in my opinion ‘fake news’ The tank situation was a blatant lie on the basis that nobody actually knew the truth, it was used to push an anti Russian agenda and make everyone think a Russian tank deliberately drove over an innocent civilian. There was nothing to suggest it was deliberate and there were no markings to suggest it was Russian, so the report should’ve been ‘We have video footage of a tank/APC being driven over a civilian vehicle in Ukraine, it’s not known whether the vehicle is Russian or Ukrainian, we are unsure if it was deliberate, but it’s an absolute miracle they escaped with their life’

How about the Russian POWs? Every single video I’ve seen sounds like they’re reading from the same script, they were told it was a military exercise, they thought they’d be welcomed by Ukraine and didn’t know they were going to war, they didn’t want a war, you’d think if that was the case you’d think they would be pleased they were caught but they look absolutely defeated/beaten.


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russia invaded an independent sovereign country! That is the only fact that matters! There cannot be any other 'alternative facts' about what this invasion is. If there were, then the Russian authorities should be more than happy to allow Russian journalists from independent media organisations to report the situation. Instead, Putin shut down every outlet of the free press in Russia, and now he is detaining Russian old-aged pensioners for speaking out against this barbaric invasion.  

Putin's oft-stated pretext for his criminal war is to 'liberate' Ukraine from Nazis. Strangely, he seems to be very comfortable with his own home-grown neo-Nazis and Russian skin-heads whose favorite pastime is to bash gay people. If in doubt, google Stephen Fry's documentary, or just watch American podcasts where white supremacists have been extolling Putin as a 'savior' of the white race. I hope the irony is not lost on people that Zelensky is Jewish and many of his relatives were murdered in Holocaust. If Zelensky is anything, then he is the archetypical non-Nazi. Then again, perhaps he is drafting a new version of Mein Kampf as I write this post.

If there had been cases of 'genocide' in the separatists' region of Donbas, as Putin keeps banging on about, Russia should have complained to the ICJ many moons ago. What is Putin waiting for? If they had evidence then surely Putin's people would have presented that evidence to the Court so that it could decide, just like they did with the trial of Slobodan Milosevic, et al. But perhaps Putin's claims about 'genocide' are really only a flimsy way of avoiding the fact that separatists in Donbas shot down MH17? In that case every shred of evidence still points in their direction.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:


 ‘We have video footage of a tank/APC being driven over a civilian vehicle in Ukraine, it’s not known whether the vehicle is Russian or Ukrainian, we are unsure if it was deliberate, but it’s an absolute miracle they escaped with their life’

Not much of a headline though is it?  I know what you are saying but that clip went viral long before the "mainstream media" picked it up and it already had the description of being a Russian tank.  

I don't think it was "face news" so much as reporting about a video clip that had already been widely shared.  It would be hard to fact check it and even you cannot say for certain what happened.

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

How about the Russian POWs? Every single video I’ve seen sounds like they’re reading from the same script, they were told it was a military exercise, they thought they’d be welcomed by Ukraine and didn’t know they were going to war, they didn’t want a war, you’d think if that was the case you’d think they would be pleased they were caught but they look absolutely defeated/beaten.

They are probably being asked the same or similar questions which is provoking similar responses.  As for the fact they looked defeated/beaten, well, wouldn't you if you had just been in a war and captured by the enemy?  Especially if you had expected to be greeted like a liberation force and cheered and welcomed by the locals?

 

I see a lot of videos and I am sceptical about them especially when they are very short and provide no context.  A good example is the number of tanks/APC's being "stolen" by Ukrainian farmers.  That looks more like they have been abandoned/immobilised beforehand because you don't see Russian soldiers fighting to take them back.  Nor do you see how they are "stolen".

So in my mind it is not "fake news" because they are just snippets of information getting out but the context is missing.

"Fake news" is realistically propaganda such as that being spread by the Kremlin where they are denying that the country is at war or has invaded the Ukraine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...