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DBC Megathread


Max Power
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1 hour ago, Banker said:

Don’t know what’s happening there but you now have to be in car park by c8.30 to guarantee your free all day parking 

I might jump to the conclusion that Kane Ltd is not allowed to make money from operating it as a car park, so let people park free of charge thus depriving DBC of the income they would otherwise have received. Perhaps someone is looking for a compromise which would allow Kane Ltd to earn money from the site without having to construct seven cinemas.

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1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

I might jump to the conclusion that Kane Ltd is not allowed to make money from operating it as a car park, so let people park free of charge thus depriving DBC of the income they would otherwise have received. Perhaps someone is looking for a compromise which would allow Kane Ltd to earn money from the site without having to construct seven cinemas.

Kane should not be allowed to get away without developing the site. It's about time we had an update on the development. Are they going to build anything or not? If yes, when are they going to start?

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4 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Kane should not be allowed to get away without developing the site. It's about time we had an update on the development. Are they going to build anything or not? If yes, when are they going to start?

Post covid I would imagine that the hospitality, cinema and retail groups they had lined up to take units simply won’t be risking developing or taking on heavy leases in the IOM for quite some time. You can’t blame them for things slowing up. The economy is totally screwed it’s going to take years to get back to normal. 

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11 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

Post covid I would imagine that the hospitality, cinema and retail groups they had lined up to take units simply won’t be risking developing or taking on heavy leases in the IOM for quite some time. You can’t blame them for things slowing up. The economy is totally screwed it’s going to take years to get back to normal. 

Then the site should be handed back and put back out to the market to see what appetite there is. There's more than one player in town.

Edited by Andy Onchan
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22 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

Post covid I would imagine that the hospitality, cinema and retail groups they had lined up to take units simply won’t be risking developing or taking on heavy leases in the IOM for quite some time. You can’t blame them for things slowing up. The economy is totally screwed it’s going to take years to get back to normal. 

We’ll government should get someone else in to redevelop it , shift the crappy cinema from Villa, build a bowling alley & put some flats in to pay the capital costs & get a third party to operate cinemas/bowling alley 

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20 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Then the site should be handed back and put back out to the market to see what appetite there is. There's more than one player in town.

The problem is Kane got a 99 year lease that doesn’t seem to be contingent on the site being immediately developed. As long as they keep paying the lease payment it’s theirs. They did have a deal with Traveledge to develop or take the long term lease of a hotel, they also had a deal with a big UK cinema chain for a multiplex. But post covid you’d be insane to be backing something like that now in the IOM so you can’t really blame Kane for not managing to find insane businesses to back a development. Especially in hotels/hospitality when the whole of the IOM hospitality industry is going down the toilet. I doubt Travelodge will be swayed to invest the thick end of £10M on hearing Rob Callisters totally made up no basis in reality plan to attract 500,000 tourists here. 

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31 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

The problem is Kane got a 99 year lease that doesn’t seem to be contingent on the site being immediately developed. As long as they keep paying the lease payment it’s theirs. They did have a deal with Traveledge to develop or take the long term lease of a hotel, they also had a deal with a big UK cinema chain for a multiplex. But post covid you’d be insane to be backing something like that now in the IOM so you can’t really blame Kane for not managing to find insane businesses to back a development. Especially in hotels/hospitality when the whole of the IOM hospitality industry is going down the toilet. I doubt Travelodge will be swayed to invest the thick end of £10M on hearing Rob Callisters totally made up no basis in reality plan to attract 500,000 tourists here. 

Actually I thought the lease was contingent on them developing the site. COVID's all but over so Kane needs to step up and start acting like they mean business.   

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1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Actually I thought the lease was contingent on them developing the site. COVID's all but over so Kane needs to step up and start acting like they mean business.   

The pandemic might be over but we are heading for the biggest recession we’ve seen since the 1970s. You’d need to be mentally impaired to make that sort of investment now. 

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15 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

The pandemic might be over but we are heading for the biggest recession we’ve seen since the 1970s. You’d need to be mentally impaired to make that sort of investment now. 

They have signed a contract. (I can't find the details now, but I recall the price/lease costs were low)

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/lord-street-to-be-done-by-may-2023-236211

"’Notwithstanding the above, the separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the developer to complete its development of the entire site within 36 months of the date of the separate agreement, that is May 4 2020.’"

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9 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

They have signed a contract. (I can't find the details now, but I recall the price/lease costs were low)

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/lord-street-to-be-done-by-may-2023-236211

"’Notwithstanding the above, the separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the developer to complete its development of the entire site within 36 months of the date of the separate agreement, that is May 4 2020.’"

What do the AGs office know about contracts and how to enforce them would be a good question to ask right now? My guess is SFA! 

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13 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

They have signed a contract. (I can't find the details now, but I recall the price/lease costs were low)

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/lord-street-to-be-done-by-may-2023-236211

"’Notwithstanding the above, the separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the developer to complete its development of the entire site within 36 months of the date of the separate agreement, that is May 4 2020.’"

All according to a Written Answer in the July 2020 Tynwald:

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The Department of Infrastructure entered into an Agreement for Sale with Lord Street Development SPV Limited (the Developer/Buyer) and Kane Limited (the Guarantor) on 22nd December 2017 to sell the former Lord Street car park.

The Agreement for Sale contained a provision that the parties would simultaneously on completion of the sale enter into a separate agreement relating to (1) the development of the former Lord Street Car Park and (2) an agreement for the Department to lease back part of the site designated to be a new information centre together with a requirement to provide new public toilets and bus stands/shelters.

The sale was conditional on acceptable planning permission being granted and this has been obtained. The agreement to sell the Lord Street car park contained an obligation to enter into a use restriction which will bind current and future owners and restricts use of the land. 

Completion of the sale took place on 4th May 2020 and the separate agreement was entered into. The separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the Developer to build bus shelters, public toilets and an information centre. There is a requirement for these parts to be completed within 26 months of the date of the agreement (4th May 2020). On completion of this part the Department will enter into a lease. The terms of the lease have been agreed (as far as practicable) and are contained in the separate agreement.

Notwithstanding the above, the separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the Developer to complete its development of the entire site within 36 months of the date of the separate agreement, that is 4th May 2020.

Note that they can't really claim Covid as an excuse as they didn't sign till after the start of the pandemic.

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2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Actually I thought the lease was contingent on them developing the site. COVID's all but over so Kane needs to step up and start acting like they mean business.   

Covid is nowhere near all but over

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There are 3 options

Kane and IoMG just let things drift.

Kane returns the land after May 2023 because it hasn’t even started work.

Kane & IoMG accept the contracts have been frustrated by Covid and negotiate new deadlines.

Drifting isn’t acceptable from a taxpayer view point.

The other two options are going to depend on Kane finding new anchor tenants/franchisees for the hotel and cinema, and the bottom not dropping out of the economy ( for the restaurant and shop units ) or the housing market for the sale of the residential units.

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13 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Notwithstanding the above, the separate agreement contains a contractual obligation on the Developer to complete its development of the entire site within 36 months of the date of the separate agreement, that is 4th May 2020.

Note that they can't really claim Covid as an excuse as they didn't sign till after the start of the pandemic.

You say that as if you believe that all pandemic related problems are over? They’ll be lucky if they get any takers in the next 5 years. 

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2 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

You say that as if you believe that all pandemic related problems are over? They’ll be lucky if they get any takers in the next 5 years. 

If a reset is required then the sensible thing to do is to put it back out on the market to see what other interest there is in developing it. Otherwise, as JW says, it will just drift along and then nowt will happen for the next 5 years anyway with no guarantee that Kane will do anything either within the 5 years or even after.

Edited by Andy Onchan
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