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Bus Vannin in Crisis


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27 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

But if you are a driver on a ZHC or full time doing an extra shift and you are offered a cruise shift with chance of some tips or a bus full of kids, which are you going to choose?.

The problem is with the management not the drivers. The drivers will always make the right decisions by them to maximize their take home pay. 

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26 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

That's fair. 

 

But then if Bus Vannin weren't scalping the cruise work it wouldn't be a situation. 

I suspect that part of the problem is that Tours IOM could no longer handle these cruise contracts, as they only have a handful of full size coaches.

https://www.tours.co.im/Fleet

I don't know what regular daily work Tours do these days, (KWC and Buchan, Poker Stars) but their available resources look fairly limited. It looks like the Island can only handle the cruise traffic if BV vehicles are involved. 

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One who hope that a zero hours driver would try to provide the service required by that contract?

However, if zero hours is all that that person get , that is a different matter.

If a zero hours driver is more committed to Hermes than BV. then that is something that BV should take into account???

Whatever, it still leaves BV short of drivers, presuming that is the problem and they do need to sort it out, no matter that the problem arises from their permanent drivers or the contracted extras?

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2 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I suspect that part of the problem is that Tours IOM could no longer handle these cruise contracts, as they only have a handful of full size coaches.

https://www.tours.co.im/Fleet

I don't know what regular daily work Tours do these days, (KWC and Buchan, Poker Stars) but their available resources look fairly limited. It looks like the Island can only handle the cruise traffic if BV vehicles are involved. 

That's a fair point. 

Then DfE need to look at catering for smaller cruise ships or incentives for Tours (or another private operator) to cater for the cruise marker. 

We ended up here as Tours shrunk their fleet when Bus Vannin started scalping the lucrative work like swimming contracts and cruise work. 

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4 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I don't know what regular daily work Tours do these days,

They have probably trimmed their service to what is available. Possibly what has been made available to them by the DfE! It may be pointless to compete for a contract that BV were also in line for???

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43 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I suspect that part of the problem is that Tours IOM could no longer handle these cruise contracts, as they only have a handful of full size coaches.

https://www.tours.co.im/Fleet

I don't know what regular daily work Tours do these days, (KWC and Buchan, Poker Stars) but their available resources look fairly limited. It looks like the Island can only handle the cruise traffic if BV vehicles are involved. 

For a privately run company I’d say that’s quite a decent fleet, but it’s a fleet that relies heavily on secured contracts and they aren’t going to buy some coaches on the off chance they get a phone call asking for support. The cruise contracts should go out to tender and Bus Vannin should only be involved if those contract conditions aren’t met.

 

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10 hours ago, Nellie said:

I suspect that part of the problem is that Tours IOM could no longer handle these cruise contracts, as they only have a handful of full size coaches.

 

the problem is tours costx X times more than taxpayer subsidised buses, the cruise ships go for cheap as possible.

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10 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

For a privately run company I’d say that’s quite a decent fleet, but it’s a fleet that relies heavily on secured contracts and they aren’t going to buy some coaches on the off chance they get a phone call asking for support. The cruise contracts should go out to tender and Bus Vannin should only be involved if those contract conditions aren’t met.

 

I have cruised a lot, and shore excursions are usually organised by the cruise line's local shipping agent, or a local travel agent. They will hire in the number of vehicles/seats that they need, based on ticket sales, and they can work with whoever they want to. Not 100% sure that is how it works here, but it would be unusual for anything else to happen.

We're also assuming that Tours feel hard done by, or want more of this work, but the reality may well be that buying/leasing several more coaches, hiring more drivers, and finding somewhere to keep them, for an occasional day's work, simply isn't viable, or doesn't fit their business model. 

I'm not defending some of the dubious, and sharp, practices which BV have indulged in, on Longworth's watch, but the whole situation is probably a bit more complex than it first appears.

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35 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I have cruised a lot, and shore excursions are usually organised by the cruise line's local shipping agent, or a local travel agent. They will hire in the number of vehicles/seats that they need, based on ticket sales, and they can work with whoever they want to. Not 100% sure that is how it works here, but it would be unusual for anything else to happen.

When on these cruise excursions do you normally travel by bus? short of an open top bus doing a city tour. I just can’t see the savings of using a bus over a coach being passed onto the passengers.

You do raise a valid point though, someone needs to approach Tours and ask for their opinion.

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Saw several complaints on Facebook regarding a long planned school trip to port Erin beach has now been changed to Douglas beach as buses no longer available!!

Douglas beach is shit & full of rocks & seaweed which seems a major complaint 

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1 hour ago, WTF said:

the problem is tours costx X times more than taxpayer subsidised buses, the cruise ships go for cheap as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Nellie said:

I have cruised a lot, and shore excursions are usually organised by the cruise line's local shipping agent, or a local travel agent. They will hire in the number of vehicles/seats that they need, based on ticket sales, and they can work with whoever they want to. Not 100% sure that is how it works here, but it would be unusual for anything else to happen.

We're also assuming that Tours feel hard done by, or want more of this work, but the reality may well be that buying/leasing several more coaches, hiring more drivers, and finding somewhere to keep them, for an occasional day's work, simply isn't viable, or doesn't fit their business model. 

I'm not defending some of the dubious, and sharp, practices which BV have indulged in, on Longworth's watch, but the whole situation is probably a bit more complex than it first appears.

 

26 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

When on these cruise excursions do you normally travel by bus? short of an open top bus doing a city tour. I just can’t see the savings of using a bus over a coach being passed onto the passengers.

You do raise a valid point though, someone needs to approach Tours and ask for their opinion.

 

I've long questioned the economics of the current 'cruise business' on the Isle of Man. In real terms pounds and pence, what is the actual benefit to the Isle of Man? 

They come in a we bus them around on loss-making buses to visit loss-making tourist sites (MNH) or travel on loss-making trains and trams. 

There are a couple of one-man-band tour guides/blue badge tour guides (like this fella interviewed by Paul Moulton) but they're not exactly vast empires producing millions in tax take. 

It all seems like one big job creation scheme at the tax payers' expense. The only genuine income seems to be a few hundred quid in harbour fees for the ship. 

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2 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

 

 

 

I've long questioned the economics of the current 'cruise business' on the Isle of Man. In real terms pounds and pence, what is the actual benefit to the Isle of Man? 

They come in a we bus them around on loss-making buses to visit loss-making tourist sites (MNH) or travel on loss-making trains and trams. 

There are a couple of one-man-band tour guides/blue badge tour guides (like this fella interviewed by Paul Moulton) but they're not exactly vast empires producing millions in tax take. 

It all seems like one big job creation scheme at the tax payers' expense. The only genuine income seems to be a few hundred quid in harbour fees for the ship. 

Saw a piece on TV last week about Venice and cruise ships. They are now charging a 10 euro, I think, fee to all tourists as they say lots don't even buy a coffee when on land.

And we are chasing this?

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1 minute ago, Boris Johnson said:

Saw a piece on TV last week about Venice and cruise ships. They are now charging a 10 euro, I think, fee to all tourists as they say lots don't even buy a coffee when on land.

And we are chasing this?

It's a fair point. In a city like Venice many will only go ashore to get a few photos, maybe buy some tourist tat. 

I'm not sure about here as we're nothing like Venice and have none of the attractions. Potentially a good argument to ramp up harbour fees for passenger vessels above a certain size. 

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