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Manx Forum's MHKs - We Need You to do What's Right


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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, SleepyJoe said:


Ashford's?

Yes he did, but CT has picked up a marvellous way of offering back-handed compliments.

ETA: and that back-hand has a knife ad a subtle twist in it, it seems to me.

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3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Personal opinion...the rot set in with Bell, firstly with Mount Murray and then the MEA debacle.

Others have since picked up the ball and run with it.

I'd say it began with Gelling. Situation was positive economically and a self-satisfied smugness crept in, so progress halted. This became inertia under Brown. And inertia led to small c conservatism as change is resisted. Bell's CM-ship tried to turn the tide (though he was complicit in what went before). Quayle was the worst of the lot.

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Posted (edited)

… and who has been chief secretary providing policy and management advice to the respective Chief Mins and CoMin for the past 11 years?? That seems to have been good (not) - perhaps a look at the advice given by the advisor is in order not just look to the politicos?? CS sticky mitts will def have been somewhere between the info bronze/silver/gold command got and tynwald’s sanitised version …

Edited by 360 View
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51 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I will listen again in case I misheard, as he also referred to his suitability to be CM. 

I’ve just listened to it on MR on demand. He’s only saying what most people think and he should be applauded for saying it publicly. They should go further and have his MBE looked into as well. He was awarded it in relation to his role as Health Minister over the pandemic which allegedly kept us ‘safe’. So Thomas has broken the ice and made calls for a Private Members Bill on Whistleblowing. He now needs a few more behind him who realize that this is what they’re paid to do. People should be calling and emailing their MHKs to demand that they stop sitting there like nodding dogs and do something. 

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“practised and diplomatic seemingly guided by the principle of deniability of anything potentially inconvenient unless/until objective evidence was available to the contrary.” 

Ouch!!! and Ashy was 'Disappointed' with the decison as a whole.  The man really is a one off with his measured tone of deniabilty.   

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4 hours ago, Hmmmm said:

“practised and diplomatic seemingly guided by the principle of deniability of anything potentially inconvenient unless/until objective evidence was available to the contrary.” 

Ouch!!! and Ashy was 'Disappointed' with the decison as a whole.  The man really is a one off with his measured tone of deniabilty.   

Sorry to introduce levity to the thread but this struck a chord !

 

 

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7 hours ago, GreyWolf said:

I like to give most Mhks a chance for a good while. I know odd mistakes and decisions do happen that’s life but I have no trust in anything that comes out of Ashfords mouth anymore he simply has to go full stop. If the big chief Alf doesn’t give him the boot then what hold has Ash got over him? 

People need to make their opinion known to their MHKs and also inform them that hiding behind the couch on this just makes them look stupid. Chris Thomas seems to have made some considered posts on Twitter and Facebook today highlighting the resignation of John Shimmin as Minister of Economic Development in 2014. There are precedents here and the Shimmin one is a good one. He resigned as he felt his position was untenable. Presumably he thought it was untenable as he had both a brain and integrity. He then stood down at the next election. It’s debatable whether Ashford has either a brain or any integrity. He accepted an MBE (lobbied for by his sister nonetheless) for basically doing a Two Ronnie’s style act with Howard Quayle to convince the masses that he was actually competent in his role. What is plain to see now is that he was not. 

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Some of the issues that all MHKs really do need to address is summarised in these paragraphs from the Decision:

128. In her February 2021 presentation (page 1053), Dr Ranson had an aim to have a well-governed medical workforce fit for purpose and fit to practice in order to deliver high quality safe care. She summarised the challenge on arrival in January 2020 as follows:

  •  A disillusioned, fragmented medical workforce.
  •  Reports of bullying were rife.
  •  A lack of medical management.
  •  A medical leadership structure that was unworkable, resulting in a sense that those in leadership positions were absolved from any sense of responsibility or accountability.
  •  A culture of not reporting concerns.
  •  A culture of not investigating concerns.

129. Because of these fundamental issues, Dr Ranson summarised the consequences. The Tribunal considered that her report (pages 1054-1063) showed not only the enormity of the problems (some of them alarming in regard to medical neglect) but also Dr Ranson’s clear vision of what needed to be achieved from an extraordinarily low base. She concluded by pointing out that what she had highlighted was only “the tip of the iceberg.”

Of course at this very time she was suffering from exactly the same sort of petty bullying that she outlines.  Given the way she was treated since, is there any indication (apart from the sacking of Angela Murray which happened before this presentation) that things have improved that much?  In part because these problems aren't just confined to the DHSC/Manx Care.

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18 hours ago, 360 View said:

… and who has been chief secretary providing policy and management advice to the respective Chief Mins and CoMin for the past 11 years?? 

Another one who needs to go now.

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14 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Some of the issues that all MHKs really do need to address is summarised in these paragraphs from the Decision:

128. In her February 2021 presentation (page 1053), Dr Ranson had an aim to have a well-governed medical workforce fit for purpose and fit to practice in order to deliver high quality safe care. She summarised the challenge on arrival in January 2020 as follows:

  •  A disillusioned, fragmented medical workforce.
  •  Reports of bullying were rife.
  •  A lack of medical management.
  •  A medical leadership structure that was unworkable, resulting in a sense that those in leadership positions were absolved from any sense of responsibility or accountability.
  •  A culture of not reporting concerns.
  •  A culture of not investigating concerns.

129. Because of these fundamental issues, Dr Ranson summarised the consequences. The Tribunal considered that her report (pages 1054-1063) showed not only the enormity of the problems (some of them alarming in regard to medical neglect) but also Dr Ranson’s clear vision of what needed to be achieved from an extraordinarily low base. She concluded by pointing out that what she had highlighted was only “the tip of the iceberg.”

Of course at this very time she was suffering from exactly the same sort of petty bullying that she outlines.  Given the way she was treated since, is there any indication (apart from the sacking of Angela Murray which happened before this presentation) that things have improved that much?  In part because these problems aren't just confined to the DHSC/Manx Care.

It seemed to take 11 complaints against Murray for action to be taken! 

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1 hour ago, cissolt said:

It seemed to take 11 complaints against Murray for action to be taken! 

And that was just the ones that Cope received in her first month:

736. [...] Dr Ranson reminded Mrs Cope by email of a prior conversation early in 2021 and it made a number of pertinent points including this one regarding Ms Murray:

“You told me that you had never encountered behaviour as you witnessed for yourself from Angela Murray and you told me that you had 11 members of staff come and tell you about their treatment at the hands of Angela Murray and that was why you summarily dismissed her. There is a culture at Noble’s – which Kathryn was fully aware of – of bullying and threatening.”

[...] 753. Once actively involved in January 2021, Mrs Cope was swift to act and, after endorsement by Miss Magson as the CEO, Ms Murray agreed to leave on 8th February 2021 following apparent allegations of bullying – as to which the Tribunal had no evidence in these proceedings. Mrs Cope had explained to the Tribunal that she had been very concerned about the bullying culture. She was not able to say whether Miss Magson had known of this. She said that it was:

“Difficult to know. I had been physically present. I was aware of the behaviour and had concern about a number of people besides Ms Murray".

It's funny we keep on being told by politicians how difficult it is to dismiss people, no matter how badly they behave or how incompetent they are.  And yet it only took a month to get rid of Murray and Cope wasn't even technically in charge yet (Manx Care didn't formally take over till April).

It would be interesting to know what has happened in regard to the "number of other people". 

And while Magson clearly did know what was going on and was happy to use Murray's bullying to her own ends, being physically present was clearly needed to deal with it effectively and quickly.  And yet we keep on being told that it's perfectly to run things on the Isle of Man remotely - and it's OK that Manx Care's Chair and NEDs live off-Island.

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10 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

... It's funny we keep on being told by politicians how difficult it is to dismiss people, no matter how badly they behave or how incompetent they are.  And yet it only took a month to get rid of Murray and Cope wasn't even technically in charge yet (Manx Care didn't formally take over till April)...

Yeah, but the important difference here is that Mrs Cope came from the NHS in the UK and obviously hasn't been infected by the "Manx malaise".

I commented on this problem about performance managing people effectively so that you can get rid of underperforming staff in the thread asking if the DoI was fit for purpose.

In particular I said:

"I worked in the NHS in the UK for 25 years and ended up as a reasonably senior manager.  When I joined it was quite unusual for senior staff who underperformed to be sacked.  The prevailing NHS culture was against that and Personnel (as they then were) departments were terrified of getting rid of somebody wrongly and getting hauled off to a tribunal. It wasn't how the NHS treated staff.

By the time I left the NHS things were completely different and there were robust performance management processes in place for all staff such that if necessary, anybody could be got rid off.  I've seen more than one Chief Executive of a NHS trust binned, and board level directors too.

And sometimes - even if you do get taken to a tribunal - it's cheaper to sack somebody even if you lose the case than it is to keep employing them.  But if you manage their disposal correctly, you should never lose.."

Of course it's ironic that Mrs Magson claimed (or appeared to claim to Mrs Cope) that Dr Ranson was being performance managed!

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