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Manx Forum's MHKs - We Need You to do What's Right


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6 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

If the employment tribunal case has finished and the decision been published, how can it still be sub judice?  DHSC might be able to appeal, but unless and until they file an appeal the case is done and dusted, isn't it, and open to comment by everyone including MHKs?

Even if the question of perjury or contempt of court is being investigated post-tribunal, that wouldn't be sub judice until somebody was charged with an offence would it?

(I may be mistaken if Manx legal practice differs from the UK in this respect)

Seems to be a convenient blanket for MHKs to hide behind.  Be interested to hear John's comments on the subject

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Posted (edited)

Surely sub judice element only applies to the non-disclosure of documents and the redress / remediation of Dr Ranson's claim which the tribunal is still to determine. The findings of the tribunal aren't covered by sub judice - they've been published and commented on widely. 

I would ask who this "sub judice" claim is coming from - the people who wrongly suggested Dr Ranson shouldn't give evidence to PAC because of sub judice for her tribunal, OR that PAC subsequently shouldn't publish that information? Again wrong.

 

Edited by Declan
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Just now, finlo said:

Sub justice has taken over from Eddie Teare's commercially confidential!

It's handy because it's like Boris's insistence that we wait for the Sue Grey report, which has to wait for the police investigation, which must wait for the local elections to be over by which time the initial anger is forgotten.

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14 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

If the employment tribunal case has finished and the decision been published, how can it still be sub judice?  DHSC might be able to appeal, but unless and until they file an appeal the case is done and dusted, isn't it, and open to comment by everyone including MHKs?

Even if the question of perjury or contempt of court is being investigated post-tribunal, that wouldn't be sub judice until somebody was charged with an offence would it?

(I may be mistaken if Manx legal practice differs from the UK in this respect)

Not sure, but I think you are right.  From memory, sub judice was originally intended to prevent juries being influenced  and didn't really apply to the judiciary who were expected not to be so influenced.  As you say, the decision is published, it isn’t sub judice and what judicial process is likely to be prejudiced? 

But, I suppose if that is what the AG says, then that is that and it keeps everyone quiet until a "party line" is agreed.

No doubt someone legal on here will correct us.

 

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I'd never heard of Stu Peters before I read the Black Lives Matter/Manx Radio thread on here a couple of years ago.  And I wouldn't know him from Adam.

But from what I've picked up about him from this forum, he sounds exactly like the sort of bloke who if he was told (as an elected MHK) that:  "Sorry Stu - you can't ask that question because it's sub judice" would respond "Why is it sub judice?" and keep on asking the same question until he got a satisfactory and truthful answer.

He sounds like a bit of a "difficult" character and sometimes it helps to have difficult characters as elected representatives.

(Not that I'm suggesting that Stu stick his neck out so far as to put himself in an untenable position, or to act in some way unbecoming of an MHK, but somebody needs to start asking questions that require answers.  And yes - I accept it's easy for me to say as I don't live there, but the whole situation re Dr Ranson (and Dr Glover) is scandalous and needs an explanation)

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51 minutes ago, Declan said:

It's handy because it's like Boris's insistence that we wait for the Sue Grey report, which has to wait for the police investigation, which must wait for the local elections to be over by which time the initial anger is forgotten.

Precisely the usual delay and deflection processes that certain people are skilled in......local examples here going back years. Leave it for long enough and it will be forgotten about in the mists of time.

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1 hour ago, 0bserver said:

No confidence vote in Ashford.

There should certainly be a no confidence vote in Ashford. As has been established numerous time he only got back in on the back of a load of hoodwinked old duffers who were eternally grateful that they didn’t die during the pandemic. And now even that is proving to be a case of the Emperors New Clothes. He was just an actor playing the role of Health Minister to maximum effect - blissfully unaware of a lot of the medical decisions going on around him and used as a prop by others to pursue sad vendettas.

Alf Cannan has shown himself to be very weak already. We still have the DOI who are basically taking the piss out of him every single day. We’re probably going to be at £100 Million on the Liverpool Terminal project before it’s finished. What does he do? Absolutely nothing. Or more correctly absolutely nothing other than accept the early retirement (presumably with pay off) of the head clown in charge who they have now allowed back to drive buses in his spare time. So in reality actually rewarding him with a pay off and re-employment albeit in a safer role where such a total buffoon can’t do any more financial damage and then promoting an equally incompetent person into his former role. 

And now we have the situation of Ashy being exposed as an unreliable witness who the Court found not to be credible and a costly tribunal and a huge payout to a senior medic who was unfairly dismissed. What will Cannan do about that? Probably still nothing unless he is forced to.

Cannan and this government has no credibility. There’s enough backbenchers (all now on the same pay as Ministers) who are standing back doing nothing. As well ask a load of useless MLCs sitting back doing the square root of bugger all. Worst are the Manx Labour MHKs such as Maltby and Faragher who can’t even be bothered scoring points where staff have clearly been bullied and treated appallingly. Great Labour values on display there. Nobody is asking them to do the Jarrow March just to stand up for workers in a clearly abusive and corrupt system. But in reality we also get nothing from anyone. 

What an absolute shower of shite. Somebody actually do something you talentless bunch of dicks. 

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6 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

There should certainly be a no confidence vote in Ashford. As has been established numerous time he only got back in on the back of a load of hoodwinked old duffers who were eternally grateful that they didn’t die during the pandemic. 

 

How has it been established numerous times he was elected on the back of hoodwinked “old duffers” (senior citizens maybe?) who were eternally grateful that they didn’t die during the pandemic.

Who established this and how?

 

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If we had party politics with the opposition screaming foul from across the chamber, things may have been better.  Who have we got to hold the politicians to account? Absolutely no-one.  And who is there to give unbiased guidance to them in this dire situation?  Absolutely no-one.  Everyone who you would expect to fulfill that role is tainted by this.  The only man is the Lt Gov (ie the UK) and do we really want that intervention?

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4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

If we had party politics with the opposition screaming foul from across the chamber, things may have been better.  Who have we got to hold the politicians to account? Absolutely no-one.  And who is there to give unbiased guidance to them in this dire situation?  Absolutely no-one.  Everyone who you would expect to fulfill that role is tainted by this.  The only man is the Lt Gov (ie the UK) and do we really want that intervention?

The whole of Tynwald (Upper & Lower houses) are proving themselves to be nothing but institutionally corrupt. And we do have political parties Gladys. Lawrie Hooper is head of Liberal Vannin. What has he said or done especially as he is Health Minister? Absolutely sod all. Maltby and Faragher are Manx Labour supposedly concerned with workers rights and what have they said or done? Absolutely sod all.

They’re a complete shower of shite. 

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54 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said:

I'd never heard of Stu Peters before I read the Black Lives Matter/Manx Radio thread on here a couple of years ago.  And I wouldn't know him from Adam.

But from what I've picked up about him from this forum, he sounds exactly like the sort of bloke who if he was told (as an elected MHK) that:  "Sorry Stu - you can't ask that question because it's sub judice" would respond "Why is it sub judice?" and keep on asking the same question until he got a satisfactory and truthful answer.

He sounds like a bit of a "difficult" character and sometimes it helps to have difficult characters as elected representatives.

(Not that I'm suggesting that Stu stick his neck out so far as to put himself in an untenable position, or to act in some way unbecoming of an MHK, but somebody needs to start asking questions that require answers.  And yes - I accept it's easy for me to say as I don't live there, but the whole situation re Dr Ranson (and Dr Glover) is scandalous and needs an explanation)

He wasn’t especially challenging of politicians and the establishment when he was at Manx Radio. But that might have come from management. 
 

Young people saying they’ve experienced racism, or autistic kids he’s a tough character. Ministers, senior CS, spokesmen for monopoly utilities find him more amenable. 

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This could indeed be a watershed as it has the potential to show who really pulls the strings on this Island.

If Cannan doesn't act conclusively and concisely, in whatever fashion applicable, then people, not least of all on here are going to start asking why?

Who neuters the CM?

 

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