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Weak sentencing…


Manx Bean
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2 hours ago, Zarley said:

I call bullshit on the claim he "forgot" he had a glass in his hand. WTF? Don't believe that for a nanosecond. 

There are so many bullshit elements in this whole episode (at least as reported in the papers) that you hardly know where to begin.  But many of them are very revealing of the way that the justice system works in the Isle of Man.

  • It took this case 19 months to get to Court.   Judges seem less inclined to send people to prison if there has been a long wait to get to Court, so if you can afford to drag things out, you're more likely to escape it.
  • Burns initially came up with an even more implausible story before changing it to the current one,  which doesn't suggest a great devotion to the truth or indeed much of the remorse which he claims to feel.
  • The line about "However, after examination by an expert prosecution witness, Burns entered a basis of plea" looks suspiciously like some sort of plea-bargain - do others get such advantages?
  • The whole story is still very odd.  Who goes to a party and then decides to go to bed in somebody else's flat?  Who forgets they have a glass (presumably full of water) in their hand when pushing someone?
  • The Courts and police here seem amazingly laid-back about witness intimidation and attempted subversion (we've seen this recently elsewhere). Given that undermines the whole concept of justice, this is fairly shocking.
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5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

There are so many bullshit elements in this whole episode (at least as reported in the papers) that you hardly know where to begin.  But many of them are very revealing of the way that the justice system works in the Isle of Man

Don’t forget his failing mental health caused by him glassing someone and then having to put up with the pressure of the legal system taking him to Court. Poor fella he’s clearly the real victim in all this. As with all of these things when they happen you’re left wondering who his mum or dad is especially when they also end up with a daft of references from all and sundry (including a local advocate who presumably wished to say anonymous).

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1 hour ago, AOR said:

The sentence had been suspended because of Burns' charity work, Deemster Cook said.

The old "charity work" is always ay good one to have as a get out of jail free card.

The guy who drove on the wrong side of the road and killed the woman biker at Hillberry worked for the Red Cross. (I think he took that up after the accident but in plenty of time of course for the court case). 

His charity work is probably the community outreach stuff FCIOM do. Which is about building a bond between the club and the community and basically part of the club's PR strategy. It's probably an implied condition of being a player that they engage in this stuff. 

Normally, I'm not one to call for stiffer sentences, but the mitigation here is very weak. He's not a teenager from a troubled home or with addiction or mental health issues where engaging with probation or mental health services etc could turn his life around. He's an adult who inflicted life changing injuries on his victim. The best intervention society can make is to make it clear to him, for all the positives in his life, that this is unacceptable. A short prison sentence would do that. 

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2 hours ago, AOR said:

@Gladys

Too many posts to quote.

You're a mother. Try reading the Facebook posts of the victim's mother.

Being a mother makes no difference, I have immense sympathy with the victim.  Having said that, I would not mount my campaign through FB.

There was probably more weight put on the probationary report that this was an aberration and that he was unlikely to reoffend, therefore pointless sending him to prison for rehabilitation.  He was punished in other ways.  

We have differing views, but neither mine nor yours will make any difference to the decision.  You either trust the professionals armed with all the facts and an objective view to make the right decision or you don't.   I err on crediting those who do this as a profession and who have the facts to be better able to come to the right decision than a group of ranters on an internet forum, whether or not they have a direct connection.  The fact that you do not agree, based on a report by our 'patchy' journos, is your right but does not mean you are right. 

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27 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

I'm surprised a CSP is happy to let him keep his job if he has the conviction, but not if he was imprisoned. 

Just shows you how desperate some CSPs must be for staff. It would certainly drag your business into disrepute. I see they’re happy to have links to his foot balling successes up on their corporate social media feed but not to this nasty and shameful episode. 

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1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

I'm torn on this one but I'm surprised a CSP is happy to let him keep his job if he has the conviction, but not if he was imprisoned. 

If his conviction had been for a dishonesty offence - theft/fraud etc - then his employer's stance might have been different, irrespective of whether or not he was imprisoned.      

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Well he played them like a fiddle didn’t he, saw red, flew into a moment of rage and got away with it. He might find people start picking fights with him now though because he’s got a suspended sentence and needs to be on his best behaviour, the bully turned into the bullied type thing.

Seeing as his girlfriend was in the middle of all this, where is her statement? was she too scared to speak up? She could’ve easily got hurt when the Prosecco glass got smashed.

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1 hour ago, Mysteron said:

If his conviction had been for a dishonesty offence - theft/fraud etc - then his employer's stance might have been different, irrespective of whether or not he was imprisoned.      

A lot of employers would have binned him off for that. In fact if they had it might have sent out a better message about personal behaviour and responsibility than this slap on the wrist for losing your rag and stuffing a glass into someone’s face because you thought they were chatting up your girlfriend.

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2 hours ago, BriT said:

A lot of employers would have binned him off for that. In fact if they had it might have sent out a better message about personal behaviour and responsibility than this slap on the wrist for losing your rag and stuffing a glass into someone’s face because you thought they were chatting up your girlfriend.

I agree, a lot of employers would have done, and for exactly the reasons you mention.  I suppose it depends on one's morals.  We all have a moral compass, but not necessarily all of which point in the same direction. 

I think his employers might have changed their stance had his conduct/conviction affected their bottom line.  There again, I'm not convinced the finance sector unduly concerns itself with morals...   

 

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4 hours ago, 0bserver said:

Why make excuses for weak sentences? 

Depends if you think it is weak sentencing or appropriate sentencing. 

I have no skin in the game at all, but on reading the report, (a summary of proceedings and sentencing from one person after all), there were factors to be taken into account.

I get far more irritated by the continual court appearances by some who just seem to believe they are above the law.  They have affected so many more people with their actions, including taking the piss with benefits, yet are still wandering around free and seemingly immune.  

That kind of offender is far more concerning to me and I have a horrible feeling that they will be buoyed by their regular evasion of a prison sentence, that they will to continue to behave above the law until a really horrible tragedy will occur. 

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4 hours ago, BriT said:

A lot of employers would have binned him off for that. In fact if they had it might have sent out a better message about personal behaviour and responsibility than this slap on the wrist for losing your rag and stuffing a glass into someone’s face because you thought they were chatting up your girlfriend.

It’s a well profiled CSP too with a good reputation. They still have pictures of him and his footballing prowess on their Twitter feed. Hopefully nobody Googles the name and connects the dots.

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11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Depends if you think it is weak sentencing or appropriate sentencing. 

I have no skin in the game at all, but on reading the report, (a summary of proceedings and sentencing from one person after all), there were factors to be taken into account.

I get far more irritated by the continual court appearances by some who just seem to believe they are above the law.  They have affected so many more people with their actions, including taking the piss with benefits, yet are still wandering around free and seemingly immune.  

That kind of offender is far more concerning to me and I have a horrible feeling that they will be buoyed by their regular evasion of a prison sentence, that they will to continue to behave above the law until a really horrible tragedy will occur. 

Yeah that's another good example of the limp wristed sentencing that passes for justice these days.

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