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The Isle of Man is missing..........(give us your opinion)


jackwhite
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5 hours ago, jackwhite said:

Fantastic shout. 

Was thinking about this the other day. 

Is there anything the hospitality could do to help this do you think? If so, thoughts on what?

I'm not sure it's just the hospitality industry's responsibility - musicians and fans need to change too.

I'll start with what we do well -

  • we're good at getting kids playing, having their first youth club gigs or Soundcheck gigs and onto the open mic nights.
  • Opportunities for bands to play long sets (often mostly covers) whilst people eat pizza, or drink beer.
  • "Name" artists from across some way off their first flush of fame. Experienced "art centre" type roots acts.

Previously, we've had places - the Douglas, the Traf, Compton Vaults - where two or three bands could play a gig in front of an audience mostly of their mates, each Friday or Saturday. One of those would be nice because it gives the kids a next step in gaining experience.

What we don't have, and never really have is that middle ground. A venue where -

  • The bigger local bands play event gigs, proper stage, lights, charge on the door, posters around town.
  • Up and coming bands or mid-level bands from across. (Kind of like the bands that played at the Grandstand in TT week. Perhaps with the backing of a local promoter or say the local punks or metalheads bring over their favourite cult band.

What I'm saying is people here have never got into the habit of going to gigs for the event rather than something that happens when you're having a pizza or a pint with your mates (which I'm not disparaging btw there's a placed for that). It would be great to pay to attend a gig and that feels like an event because of higher production values, or a great line-up. I think monetising these gigs ups the expectation levels of the audience and performers and adds value to the occasion.

Actually, there have been examples of what I'm talking about over the years, although it pains me to say it DC/AC and Pigs Over The Moon (the Pink Floyd tribute) do it really well - don't play often so they make it an event when they do. Back in the day a group of bands would book a function room on the Prom or the room above the Ridgeway, gimmicky posters all over town, keep the door money and the venue takes the bar takings or the Glen Helen or Creg Malin with a coach back to town. Recently, Baad Acid and Minavera have done gigs at PSM town hall with charging on the door, the old Noa bakery had some fine gigs, Sound Records have had gigs in the room above the British, Brit Pop legends in the  room at the Colby Glen where we had me Dad's wake. In fact, if I think about my all time favourite local gigs there's more in this category than there are that are "names" at the Villa or free band in the corner of the pub.

So I guess hospitality could open their function rooms to bands and promoters for free or at least at an economical rate. Ideally, somewhere could be opened that's designed to have bands with a stage and a proper soundsystem and lights where visiting bands could play to 100ish, but that's a bigger ask I know.

But you can't put this all on hospitality. Promoters and bands need to up their game - no soundchecking while the public is in, keep gaps between bands to a minimum, have a timed running order and tell the punters, finish in time for the last bus. And the audience needs to respect the bands - if you're at the front watch the band or go to the back to chat to your mates; don't stand with your back to them; if you're mates with the band don't have a conversation with them while they're on stage and respect the other bands.

Like I said it would be nice to get smaller bands over from across.The cost of getting here is a serious blocker to that, maybe the industry could lobby for reduced fares for bands in vans. This would also benefit local bands allowing them to get experience playing to more than their mates and up the overall quality.

Sorry. Probably unrealistic but doing some blue-sky thinking.

 

 

Edited by Declan
had more to say - hit return in error
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2 minutes ago, Declan said:

I'm not sure it's just the hospitality industry's responsibility - musicians and fans need to change too.

I'll start with what we do well -

  • we're good at getting kids playing, having their first youth club gigs or Soundcheck gigs and onto the open mic nights.
  • Opportunities for bands to play long sets (often mostly covers) whilst people eat pizza, or drink beer.
  • "Name" artists from across some way off their first flush of fame. Experienced "art centre" type roots acts.

Previously, we've had places - the Douglas, the Traf, Compton Vaults - where two or three bands could play a gig in front of an audience mostly of their mates, each Friday or Saturday. One of those would be nice because it gives the kids a next step in gaining experience.

What we don't have, and never really have is that middle ground. A venue where -

  • The bigger local bands play event gigs, proper stage, lights, charge on the door, posters around town.
  • Up and coming bands or mid-level bands from across. (Kind of like the bands that played at the Grandstand in TT week. Perhaps with the backing of a local promoter or say the local punks or metalheads bring over their favourite cult band.

What I'm saying is people here have never got into the habit of going to gigs for the event rather than something that happens when you're having a pizza or a pint with your mates (which I'm not disparaging btw there's a placed for that). It would be great to pay to attend a gig and that feels like an event because of higher production values, or a great line-up. I think monetising these gigs ups the expectation levels of the audience and performers and adds value to the occasion.

Actually, there have been examples of what I'm talking about over the years, although it pains me to say it DC/AC and Pigs Over The Moon (the Pink Floyd tribute) do it really well - don't play often so they make it an event when they do. Back in the day a group of bands would book a function room on the Prom or the room above the Ridgeway, gimmicky posters all over town, keep the door money and the venue takes the bar takings or the Glen Helen or Creg Malin with a coach back to town. Recently, Baad Acid and Minavera have done gigs at PSM town hall with charging on the door, the old Noa bakery had some fine gigs, Sound Records have had gigs in the room above the British, Brit Pop legends in the  room at the Colby Glen where we had me Dad's wake. In fact, if I think about my all time favourite local gigs there's more in this category than there are that are "names" at the Villa or free band in the corner of the pub.

So I guess hospitality could open their function rooms to bands and promoters for free or at least at an economical rate. Ideally, somewhere could be opened that's designed to have bands with a stage and a proper soundsystem and lights where visiting bands could play to 100ish, but that's a bigger ask I know.

But you can't put this all on hospitality. Promoters and bands need to up their game - no soundchecking while the public is in, keep gaps between bands to a minimum, have a timed running order and tell the punters, finish in time for the last bus. And the audience needs to respect the bands - if you're at the front watch the band or go to the back to chat to your mates; don't stand with your back to them; if you're mates with the band don't have a conversation with them while they're on stage and respect the other bands.

 

 

Bloody hell.

+1

Nice one Declan. 

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2 hours ago, Passing Time said:

The 70's was the real deal over here. Summer seasons were brilliant. An act or a band on in nearly every seafront hotel. Remove the tourist industry and away it all goes

Was that time a bit artistically restrictive for the musicians though? I've been doing a bit of research for a couple of writing ideas I have peculating into local music and it sounds like these bands played long sets drawing on the hits of the day. So perhaps they developed a vast repertoire, stagecraft, the musicality to quickly learn and play new songs at the expense of individual expression - songwriting, arranging, developing your own sound.

I don't mean to be dismissive of them and there's an element of where did it all go wrong George Best in asking "I know you got paid to play music every night and went home with a different visitor every night, but do you not think it would have been more fullfilling to express your inner turmoil in songform from your back bedroom to the five people who follow you on Soundcloud?"

But they do seem to have left fewer recorded artifacts that subsequent generations. None of the 60's acts seem to have released anything, the 70's has the wonderful Jygsaw lp, some folk-revival songs and a couple of singles and largely they didn't go on to release lots in subsequent years. Whilst there are lots of locals in the next generations - the 80's/ 90's indie kids, the 00's Traf / Manx Bands crowd that have written, recorded and released a substantial and worthwhile body of work. There's probably already been more great local music released in 2022 than the whole of the seventies.

Part of the reason is it became progressively easier and cheaper to record but I wonder if the differing live environments before and after the tourist boom bred musicians with different aspirations.

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A proper university and affordable housing for young people. The rest will follow.

I personally don't like the notion that a 'cultural quarter' is defined by government. Culture and arts springs up where rents are cheap and young people are, and is not predefined and built in slabs of granite.

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10 hours ago, Declan said:

I'm not sure it's just the hospitality industry's responsibility - musicians and fans need to change too.

I'll start with what we do well -

  • we're good at getting kids playing, having their first youth club gigs or Soundcheck gigs and onto the open mic nights.
  • Opportunities for bands to play long sets (often mostly covers) whilst people eat pizza, or drink beer.
  • "Name" artists from across some way off their first flush of fame. Experienced "art centre" type roots acts.

Previously, we've had places - the Douglas, the Traf, Compton Vaults - where two or three bands could play a gig in front of an audience mostly of their mates, each Friday or Saturday. One of those would be nice because it gives the kids a next step in gaining experience.

What we don't have, and never really have is that middle ground. A venue where -

  • The bigger local bands play event gigs, proper stage, lights, charge on the door, posters around town.
  • Up and coming bands or mid-level bands from across. (Kind of like the bands that played at the Grandstand in TT week. Perhaps with the backing of a local promoter or say the local punks or metalheads bring over their favourite cult band.

What I'm saying is people here have never got into the habit of going to gigs for the event rather than something that happens when you're having a pizza or a pint with your mates (which I'm not disparaging btw there's a placed for that). It would be great to pay to attend a gig and that feels like an event because of higher production values, or a great line-up. I think monetising these gigs ups the expectation levels of the audience and performers and adds value to the occasion.

Actually, there have been examples of what I'm talking about over the years, although it pains me to say it DC/AC and Pigs Over The Moon (the Pink Floyd tribute) do it really well - don't play often so they make it an event when they do. Back in the day a group of bands would book a function room on the Prom or the room above the Ridgeway, gimmicky posters all over town, keep the door money and the venue takes the bar takings or the Glen Helen or Creg Malin with a coach back to town. Recently, Baad Acid and Minavera have done gigs at PSM town hall with charging on the door, the old Noa bakery had some fine gigs, Sound Records have had gigs in the room above the British, Brit Pop legends in the  room at the Colby Glen where we had me Dad's wake. In fact, if I think about my all time favourite local gigs there's more in this category than there are that are "names" at the Villa or free band in the corner of the pub.

So I guess hospitality could open their function rooms to bands and promoters for free or at least at an economical rate. Ideally, somewhere could be opened that's designed to have bands with a stage and a proper soundsystem and lights where visiting bands could play to 100ish, but that's a bigger ask I know.

But you can't put this all on hospitality. Promoters and bands need to up their game - no soundchecking while the public is in, keep gaps between bands to a minimum, have a timed running order and tell the punters, finish in time for the last bus. And the audience needs to respect the bands - if you're at the front watch the band or go to the back to chat to your mates; don't stand with your back to them; if you're mates with the band don't have a conversation with them while they're on stage and respect the other bands.

Like I said it would be nice to get smaller bands over from across.The cost of getting here is a serious blocker to that, maybe the industry could lobby for reduced fares for bands in vans. This would also benefit local bands allowing them to get experience playing to more than their mates and up the overall quality.

Sorry. Probably unrealistic but doing some blue-sky thinking.

 

 

Brilliant ideas Declan - the only downside are the Islands' archaic licencing laws. The bench would be all over it like a bad rash blocking everything and anything. Its no secret that anybody now wishing to have a pub/club at the summerland end of the prom will almost certainly have their application blocked by plod

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56 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Brilliant ideas Declan - the only downside are the Islands' archaic licencing laws. The bench would be all over it like a bad rash blocking everything and anything. Its no secret that anybody now wishing to have a pub/club at the summerland end of the prom will almost certainly have their application blocked by plod

Is this something you've been told by someone applying along there?

I know of a site there where a soon to be pub owner was encouraged to go for. Never got as far as that due to their concerns over footfall but I'm certain they weren't aware of what you refer to.

A club I'm certain would have issues but definitely the same for a pub too?

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1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

Is this something you've been told by someone applying along there?

I know of a site there where a soon to be pub owner was encouraged to go for. Never got as far as that due to their concerns over footfall but I'm certain they weren't aware of what you refer to.

A club I'm certain would have issues but definitely the same for a pub too?

Something that I was told by somebody that was interested in the old Paramount building prior to Milky purchasing it

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ice rink - 

A proper one.

With ice hockey teams and everything else that goes with it.

Dry ski slope.

White water trail.

Wild camping areas.

..and a felt museum.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Passing Time said:

Something that I was told by somebody that was interested in the old Paramount building prior to Milky purchasing it

Yeah I can imagine that as a club but definitely as a pub too? 

(Sorry for clogging up my own thread!)

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21 minutes ago, x-in-man said:

ice rink - 

A proper one.

With ice hockey teams and everything else that goes with it.

Dry ski slope.

White water trail.

Wild camping areas.

..and a felt museum.

 

 

Some of these maybe, and I know this is a wish list. But genuine question, do you think there would be sufficient interest in some of these?

Can't see it with the hockey team etc or even dry ski slope to make it viable? 

As for the felt museum.......

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