Roger Mexico Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 6 minutes ago, Will Halsall said: I agree with Skippy: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/taking-back-door-legco-nominations-fundamentally-indecent/ I don't really. Arguably someone who has put themselves forward for election, even if they failed, has more authority than someone who has never bothered and so never had the contact with the public. Some electoral systems recognise this by awarding the political party proportional seats to the 'best losers'. You can't just get into parliament by knowing the right people to put you on the party list, you have to fight a constituency. Josem was bitching about Paul Craine having been runner-up in Middle twice[1], but that's more of a democratic franchise than say Diane Kelsey who was elected the same time and was mainly know for having be the Governor's right-hand woman. Of course what we should all be demanding is proper elections to LegCo by the people, ideally on an all-Island basis. [1] For what it's worth I reckon he would have been elected there this time if he had stood, as he got more votes in 2016 than Stu Peters did in 2021. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Halsall Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't really. Arguably someone who has put themselves forward for election, even if they failed, has more authority than someone who has never bothered and so never had the contact with the public. Some electoral systems recognise this by awarding the political party proportional seats to the 'best losers'. You can't just get into parliament by knowing the right people to put you on the party list, you have to fight a constituency. Josem was bitching about Paul Craine having been runner-up in Middle twice[1], but that's more of a democratic franchise than say Diane Kelsey who was elected the same time and was mainly know for having be the Governor's right-hand woman. Of course what we should all be demanding is proper elections to LegCo by the people, ideally on an all-Island basis. [1] For what it's worth I reckon he would have been elected there this time if he had stood, as he got more votes in 2016 than Stu Peters did in 2021. Rog, as always I respect your points. It's extremely rare that I agree with Skippy, but with regards to the election of the CM and the MLC's debate, I think the process has proved to be flawed, and these positions should not be by establishment votes only. The simple example of Crookall avoiding the embarrassment of non election from the Gobbags, getting elected ahead of Moyle in 2015, shows the closed shop cronyism within the establishment to me. Bell was a master of having a CoMin full of disciples, as was HQ. I have absolutely no time for Josem, particularly his lack of transparency, however, on this subject I agree the election process needs reviewing. As has been mooted prior in this thread though, I am sure if he was given the opportunity for MLC his 'No' could quickly change to a 'Yes'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 In sport, the third placed finisher is still awarded a Bronze medal! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 (edited) 4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't really. Arguably someone who has put themselves forward for election, even if they failed, has more authority than someone who has never bothered and so never had the contact with the public. Don’t agree, if the public has rejected them then they simply aren’t wanted. Look at Cretney FFS he managed to milk another 5/10 years of pay as MLC after it was clear he wasn’t going to get back in, in Douglas South. What did he achieve? Nothing. Edited January 29 by offshoremanxman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Let's hope the Positive Action Group or Liberal Vannin organise a public meeting so we can at least see and hear the candidates for the Legislative Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said: Let's hope the Positive Action Group or Liberal Vannin organise a public meeting so we can at least see and hear the candidates for the Legislative Council. Hopefully we will if there’s an actual election with more candidates than the 4 places Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 48 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Don’t agree, if the public has rejected them then they simply aren’t wanted. Look at Cretney FFS he managed to milk another 5/10 years of pay as MLC after it was clear he wasn’t going to get back in, in Douglas South. What did he achieve? Nothing. But a lot of people who stand don't get elected first time (or the first many if you happen to be Quirkio) it doesn't stop being the voter's choice eventually. As for Cretney, he got his extra 4 years or whatever, without election. But he probably would have been re-elected in 2016 if he wanted to stand (he was still way ahead of Beacroft in 2011 by 1749 votes to 1191). And people can't complain about Maltby getting in on her father's coat-tails and say that he couldn't have got elected himself five years before. No saying he would have deserved to get in mind, but he was popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 14 minutes ago, Banker said: Hopefully we will if there’s an actual election with more candidates than the 4 places Well there were seven for two places in 2021 and ten for four in 2020 (though Crookall later withdrew). So it seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 11 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Of course what we should all be demanding is proper elections to LegCo by the people, ideally on an all-Island basis. That will never happen because firstly they need to properly define what a publicly elected LegCo would do (beyond the vague job description they have now); and secondly, the very people who benefit the most from having an indirectly elected upper chamber (CoMin and LegCo itself) would never vote for it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Down the years i have yet to see many MLCs deserve their salary and it’s always been for most, we will vote you in the club but you toe the line. It needs real reform from it present state and slimming down. It would be slightly more democratic if every local authority commissioners got a vote, then those standing would have to at least go around island looking for a vote not just the decision of the CM and council of ministers block vote deciding on there favourites, as Will mentioned in an earlier post the fact that Crookall (who once again seems a lame duck mhk ) got the nod before Moyle showed to me that someone like Moyle who was far to educated and bright for them to hold back and control. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 MHKs argue who to elect while MLCs watch on. Oil on canvas, 1964. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 hours ago, GreyWolf said: Down the years i have yet to see many MLCs deserve their salary and it’s always been for most, we will vote you in the club but you toe the line. It needs real reform from it present state and slimming down. It would be slightly more democratic if every local authority commissioners got a vote, then those standing would have to at least go around island looking for a vote not just the decision of the CM and council of ministers block vote deciding on there favourites, as Will mentioned in an earlier post the fact that Crookall (who once again seems a lame duck mhk ) got the nod before Moyle showed to me that someone like Moyle who was far to educated and bright for them to hold back and control. Chums, Old Boys Network, Friends, and so on………. whoever they vote in need not have a brain, must be compliant, amenable and easy to manipulate. If they can read the Tynwald Order Pack, which Rob Callister so vigilantly reads the weekend before the sitting then it’s a bonus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buncha wankas Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 1/29/2023 at 3:35 PM, offshoremanxman said: Don’t agree, if the public has rejected them then they simply aren’t wanted. Look at Cretney FFS he managed to milk another 5/10 years of pay as MLC after it was clear he wasn’t going to get back in, in Douglas South. What did he achieve? Nothing. He achieved a fatter pension and getting his daughter on the gravy train 🚂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genericUserName Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 We have more than enough elected representatives already - often standing on essentially populist / crowd-pleasing agendas. It would make much more sense for some (ultimately Crown) body to appoint people with professional and / or expert credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 14 minutes ago, genericUserName said: We have more than enough elected representatives already - often standing on essentially populist / crowd-pleasing agendas. It would make much more sense for some (ultimately Crown) body to appoint people with professional and / or expert credentials. Sounds fine in principle, but who appoints the body ……………. CM? COMIN? It could end up with cronies appointed by cronies appointed by politicos. What’s experts/professional’s credentials? Tame Athol Street lawyer, or CoC member? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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