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Sib - Savings And Investment Bank

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Of course there probably was skullduggery and fraud, that's how the bank collapsed isn't it?


Liquidations are costly things, regrettably the liquidators costs usually use up a substantial amount of any recoveries, but they are a necessary evil. It would probably be extremely costly to track down the missing millions (if it could be tracked down) and so the liquidators have drawn a line under the affair.


No consolation for those that lost, but 23 years on perhaps we can be a little more comfortable with the way the financial services industry is regulated - far fewer men in shiny suits!

Edited by glad to be back
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I'm not a journo. just remember seeing the piles of shredding in Athol Street back lane!


The whole thing stank, and most of us by-standing at the time thought the same, which is indirectly one of the reasons that I originally left the IOM; just thought the Island couldn't recover after it.


I do remember, however, that the Island was pretty replete with men in shiny (mohair) suits around that time, all of whom had a wizard wheeze to make loads of money!


Thankfully, they have mainly gone now and we have a system of regulation which does stand well in the international scheme of things.


Sadly, money is involved in everything we do, and that doesn't lend itself to high principles and ethics. But we probably do the best we can, treading the fine line between self-interest and conscience.

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I think you'll find this has already been talked about on this site:




Its most likely thats where Manx Radio got the idea to run an article on it!


Its a joke, you journalists never use your own skills to find news articles, you use ManxForums instead!


Just make me a job offer!


I don't know anything about this particular tale (I've been on hols this week) so don't know how the Manx Radio piece came about.


But I have absolutely no problem in admitting that if I see something of interest on here (or elsewhere), I'll usually follow it up and see if there IS a story worth reporting. Often there isn't.


How do you think news stories turn up in print or on radio/TV? It's always someone knowing about something and telling others. I certainly don't have any superhuman story-detecting powers!


If you want to keep skeet to yourself, don't post. Then you can have the dubious pleasure of posting that 'you knew about THAT days/weeks/months before Manx Radio'.


To put this into context, I would imagine that something like one in a hundred stories come from a lead on Manxforums. A far greater number come from people who may well post here, but prefer to give me a call with a whisper they've heard from a man down the pub.

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duh,if you look at his [profile you can send a pm or email him directly. or I did hear he works at manx radio,their number shouldnt be hard to get hold of.


oh dont rise to it stu! of course if u see a story here your gonna look into it, so what? the paper is always having stories in saying this and that about local forums,even using comments as quotes. wheres their accusations from juan,i mean partypolitics

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  • 2 years later...

Roger Watterson is interviewing David Callister MLC and Charles Guard on Manx Radio Opinion just now.


Gwendoline Lamb was mentioned but unfortunately they couldn't find a clip of her voice.


I thought I would oblige by bumping this thread up from a few years ago.


It looks like it might become topical again anyway.


(Audio clips in first post of thread)

Edited by lisner
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If we are going to talk about SIB lets get it right


SIB was a small IOM based bank controlled by a Mr Victor Gray.


It paid above average intetrest rates and made some very risky dubious poorly secured loans to associates and semi underworld figures


It went bust in July 1982, I was there in court and can remember it well. I was in court for KSF IOM as well.


There was a full enquiry. A full liquidation, but no criminal trial as it took too long to get to Court. The main protagonist being onr of the few persons, Saunders of Guiness apart, to make a recovery from alleged alzheimers which had the tria stayed.


Gwendolne Lamb came over as one of the most unlikeable victims, self publicising with lots to say, much criticism of everyone but no suggestions as to how to improve things, strange she has tured up again now.


Liquidation took 23 years, it ended late 2005. Creditors got back 33p in the pound. (£10.6 million) The liquidation cost 35p in the pound. (£11.03milion) The last 8 years were all down to chasing one man, a Mr Finken, who it was alleged had £12 million hidden. Liquidators eventually settled for £100,000 from him


Liquidation costs were 11.0 million made up as follows


legal fees £4.77m


Liquidators £5.31m


VAT £1.21m


Provisional liquidators £115,000


Salaries £98,000


Admin £223,000


Sundry expenses £46,000

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Creditors got back 33p in the pound. (£10.6 million) The liquidation cost 35p in the pound. (£11.03milion)


It tells you all you need to know really when the liquidation costs more than was recovered for depositors.


They must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of KSFIOM where deposits were over £800m compared to the £33m in SIB I wonder if a similar ratio of cost / return will emerge?

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MY suspicion is not. The assets will be readily realisable by sale on at discount. There will not be complex litigation to chase assets, with one exception that is the money blocked in UK by the UK Government. £550 million of it.


The bank here is solvent, no fraud.


They have recovered £100 million aprox alraedy and another £100 million is expected by Christmas, so in 4 months they will have got 25p in the pound. Sort out the UK sucessfully and its 95p in the pound.

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The bank here is solvent, no fraud.


I'm sorry John but if it was solvent people would have had their money back by now. You seem to think getting the £500m odd back off the UK Government will be a walk in the park that won't rack up the fees. I'd beg to differ, but lets see what happens.

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You misunderstand


1. The bank was not insolvent in terms of balance sheet, there are no losses. banks take money in short term and lend it long term. It takes a time to recover mortgages etc. If KSF IOM collects everything at face value it will collect £1.50 on the pound so there willbe money for the liquidators and the laweyres and to go back to Iceland to the shareholders


2. The UK liquidators have didtributed a balance sheet which shows solvency with little margin


so yes it had to stop and be stopped from trading as it could not pay short term deposits as and when they fell due


3. The UK position will take time and maybe money in fees, but it will only take a ferw years, not 23. BUt it is the big question. But even without there is the possibility of £1.00 in the pound, just if the bank is realised properly or reconstructed, which is what is being explored now.


I just wanted to point out that the situation which is political, not down to fruad or balance sheet insolvency, is very different to SIB

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Out of interest, what would happen to the Isle of Man deposits held by the UK if the Isle of Man was another United Kingdom jurisdiction?


Before anybody flames me, I might add that I have a letter in front of me informing me that this is what the Isle of Man is. Unfortunately I am unable to disclose anything more concerning the letter, as it involves a third party. But I can say that it was sent by a UK Government service to a high ranking legal office in Peel Street Douglas, then copied to me.


Nobody else seems to have spotted the 'another United Kingdom Jurisdiction bit'.

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You misunderstand


Technically every bank is insolvent because as you say banks take money in short term and lend it long term. They have reserves which enable them to manage their short time liabilities if they can't realise long terms assets to meet outflows but I'm sorry I don't accept the argument that there are no losses in this case - effectively you mean there are no "current" losses in that currently most people believe that the £500m in the UK is recoverable. That might not actually be the case at all, and therefore the bank could well be already catastrophically insolvent its just that this is not apparent yet because everyone believes this money will be returned to it.


Would you agree?

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