Chinahand Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm a great believer in UFOs - people see objects in the sky which they can't identify all the time - but am profoundly sceptical about flying saucers; astronomers continually scan the skies for near earth objects, if these guys started reporting little green men rather than Psychics in New York or Cow Molesters in Idaho I'd be more interested. But its a big universe out there, we understand an awful lot about the chemistry of life, but only enough to frustrate any claims that alien life is a certainty. Is it out there? Probably, but the evidence is extremely weak - but yesterday NASA held a press conference to discuss the firmest evidence they've ever had that alien life may exist - on Mars. Yes, it might be just a microbe, yes it probabally lives hundreds of metres below the surface - but even so WOW that is amazing news. LINK The NASA scientist [Michael Mumma] and his colleagues have either found evidence of life on Mars, or are getting fooled by some weird geochemistry. The researchers today are reporting that in 2003 and 2006, they recorded plumes of methane rising from the surface of the Red Planet. Working back from their measurements of methane in the air, the researchers pinpointed some particular spots on Mars where the methane came from. And it’s a lot of methane they’re talking about–19,000 metric tons of the stuff in one plume. It’s coming out of Mars at the same rate seen at methane-producing spots on Earth. Those places on Earth happen to be places where microbes are churning the gas out. There might be other ways of getting plumes of methane into the air–generating it from magma, for example. But in a paper published today by Science, Mumma and his colleagues point to the possibility that microbes buried a mile or two under the surface of Mars might be responsible. all this was done from Earth, with ground-based telescopes. Between this and the discovery of exoplanets, ground-based telescopes are doing some awesome stuff these days. Mumma points out that if volcanoes were making the methane, you’d expect other gases too, which they don’t see. NASA will look for other things that would be consistent with biology. Mike Meyer of NASA [says that the] Mars Science Laboratory, a planned probe to the surface of Mars could do a better job of measuring the methane–including the balance of isotopes. (Methane from life has a slightly different balance than methane from volcanoes.) Lisa Pratt says methane from rock (serpentinization) is rare on Earth and actually plugs up active sites. This is why she takes biology seriously as “slightly more plausible.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14IntelligenceCompany Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 agreed it may only be a beetle or such but amazing.. They are out there !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Nasa's "multimedia" is getting pretty good. Video Press release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I was surprised this didn't pop up on the forum yesterday tbh (were you waiting for the NASA stuff to be released?). Manned mission to Mars a reality if they get some sort of positive readings from the 2011 trip then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 agreed it may only be a beetle or such but amazing.. They are out there !!! Ace - like this one! Tis interesting stuff though. Obviously if there are microbes on one planet nearby there's nothing to stop there being UFO flying ET pests on other ones dotted around the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 That's right Cret - though there is a chance that the life on earth and life on Mars COULD be from the same source (bet Fred Hoyle would be right in there in this debate if he was still alive!). IF life was found and it was found to be chemically identical to life on earth it would be a huge discovery, but leave many questions unanswered. But IF it was found to be chemically unique then that would really answer questions about the ubiquity of life in the Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Methane is evidence of alien farts. Aliens??? Eeeeeeeek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm really impressed that they've come up with this - and I'm positive that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the current financial situation and a new administration might want to take a long, hard look at NASA's funding. No, sir, it couldn't be remotely possible that such things could be linked! Perish the very thought! thats right a manned missoin will suck up billions into the cia and nsa black budgets.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 may any doubts about us having distant relatives be firmly banished from any skeptics minds.. amazing footage which ive watched many times and when the stats are done on the distance from the camera and the lenght of the tether its impossible for there to be any doubt that 4 mile wide objects passing behind it are anything but under intelligent control.. thats just a short clip out of hours worth of footage.. near the end where they can be clearly seen to be pulsing is conclusive for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Erm - listen to the astronaut actually taking the video - he talks of debris surrounding the shuttle and travelling along with it (oh, but of course he's part of the conspiracy I forgot) - and this debunking talks of logs showing the shuttle has just jettisoned water - which will have frozen to ice, plus explaining the problems with the camera image etc I discuss below. The video is massively distorted - the tether is massively long 12 miles but only centimeters wide - its lit up by the sunset which is making the video flair - it looks far far thicker than it is. The flare is blinding out pixels and making them go to their maximum value - you simply cannot say things are going behind the tether when the image is whiting out an area far far bigger than the tether - you can't actually see it: its 1 cm wide 77 nautical miles away all you are seeing is flared pixels. The tether was tracked by ground astronomers who saw no such "UFOs". Everything for me points to it being what the astronaut said it was - he was filming the tether through a haze of ice particles orbiting the shuttle in its microgravity. What's the other explanation? Here is an organization spending billions of dollars trying to provide proof that extraterrestial life exists, but at the same time trying to hide that its already got the evidence - why hide it? Tin hats out everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringwraith Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cXj6IlFc4c Seen some pretty weird clouds over here, and also saw something very strange on an early morning flight to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'm re-opening this thread which is where the current MM2, Slim, Dr Dave, Me slag fest should really be and where a very minor round one was actually fought back in January (which MM2 forgot about - its only 6 months ago MM2 - I'd worry if my memory was that poor!) This BBC report about under surface oceans on Saturn's moon Enceladus is interesting. If there are oceans, plus heat from tital forces from Saturn, then its highly likely there will be black smokers - and black smokers on Earth are rich in life almost totally independent of the sun's energy. Hence it is a possibility that life may have developed around a black smoker buried in an ocean deep in the crust of Enceladus. Amazing. Bad Astronomy has a more complicated take on the science - the paper providing the evidence of an ocean is published in Nature - and the very same edition has another paper which directly contradicts the result. It all revolves around signals for Sodium and whether it is or is not present in water which surrounds the moon in a halo. The first papers says it is there, the second says its not. Who's got their results wrong - that is up to science to find out and shows how absolutely contradictory positions are common in research. Both teams will have invested years of their lives coming to these conclusions - and they'll fight it out, paper by paper over the next few years to find out which is right. Fantastic, fascinating research - with a tantilizing hope that it may end with the descovery of real aliens! Oh and it's all about ice and water vapour in the vacumn of space - Saturn's rings - stable for millions of years - and made of what - mainly ICE. Intersting that isn't it, MM2. MM2 I've no idea how long it takes for ice particles to entirely sublimate into vapour around the shuttle - but lots of research has been done looking at debris and vapour floating around the shuttle and its affects on observations from the shuttle. Optical contamination measurements on early Shuttle missions - The results recorded throughout a 32° field-of-view indicate high particle concentrations during early mission operations. These decay to a quiescent rate of 500 particles of >10-µm radius observed per orbit. Optical observations from the Space Shuttle - The 10-color, near UV to near IR sky-scanning SIA experiment was affected at all wavelengths by Shuttle-induced contaminant sky glows arising from thruster firings and from particulates originating with the Orbiter and its payload. Nighttime low-light-level observations were limited by fast-moving bright 'clouds' connected with and immediately following the frequent vernier thruster firings. 500 particles observed per orbit, fast moving bright clouds - fascinating stuff - MM2 if you were being objective you'd have to be considering these papers in any analysis of the tether video etc - a comprehensive analysis would take years, but then again that's what the scientists publishing in Nature are doing - spending years of their lives, billions of pounds in telescope, and satellite time patiently looking for evidence of alien life. Of course these people would naturally be totally uninterested in solid evidence of mile wide space ships in low earth orbit - totally, not relevent at all to their years of patient work - and of course the pay offs from the CIA help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 If there are oceans, plus heat from tital forces from Saturn, then its highly likely there will be black smokers - and black smokers on Earth are rich in life almost totally independent of the sun's energy. Hence it is a possibility that life may have developed around a black smoker buried in an ocean deep in the crust of Enceladus. Amazing. I've seen footage in nature documentaries about the shrimp like animals that survive purely off the ocean vents. I think I'm right in saying they're the only life on earth discovered so far that doesn't rely on the sun? I haven't read your linked articles yet, but do they mention the origins of the animals that are able to feed off black smokers? If they evolved from other life on earth then the chances of finding them elsewhere must be limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I've not linked to anything about black smokers - I'm meant to be preparing for a meeting this afternoon so this is naughty. But anyway - who needs lunch. As far as I'm aware the life on black smokers on earth are genetically related to life else where - I think the evidence is that they moved in, rather than everyone else moving out! Plus they rely on the seasons for spawning - quite how they sense its spring or whatever isn't really known - but they are locked into the sun cycle somehow - probably nutrients drifting in. So you can't say it doesn't rely on the sun. But even so they are amazing places - and to go and see one on a moon of Saturn - I'd imagine that preparing to do that would be one interesting job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 AC Clarke, predictions of life on Europa, right again? To totally dismiss the possibilty of life more advanced elsewhere is just conceit or arrogance or insecurity maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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